Welder ID stamps

Date 05-22-2003 21:21

The most common place I seem to remember seeing this requirement was in cutomer/project specifications many of them call for welder traceability. If it is in a code somewhere, I can't recall of the top of my head.

By G.S.Crisi (****)

Date 05-22-2003 22:41

Any QAP (Quality Assurance Program) worth the name calls for welds traceability, which means that both shop and field welds must bear an identification saying who made them.
Giovanni s. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil

By medicinehawk01 (**)

Date 05-23-2003 03:17

Usually it depends on the specific job you are working on whether you are required to stamp you weld with your assigned welder I.D., but I think is and ASME requirement (B.31.3 or B.31.1, section- IX). Certain states (Massachusetts for example) requires anyone working on steam systems (over 750,000 btu-output) be licensed (journey pipe fitter) even if you are just the welder.

The contractor I work for requires that every weld be identified by the weldor's company I.D., no matter what the system is. However, it may not be tracked to the point where a year down the road someone wants to see who welded what joint as that requires alot more effort to produce traceability. Meaning, after a system is welded and tested (hydro-pressure tests or other tests) the system is then "signed-off" by the client, which means they "bought" the piping system as welded once these tests are approved by an authorized inspector. No further traceability needed as the system is bought.

Anything that is used in the production of drugs (pharmacuitical or bio-tech) is strictly monitered by the Food & Drug Administration (FDA) and any piping system (other than but may include drains) is stringently traced. All welds are documented. A typical system is isomectrically drawn where all welds are logged with information such as : welder I.D., weld number, date, heat numbers of the fitting and tubing used. Most welds are optically inspected and video-taped using a fiber-optic camera which will snake down in a system and show the weld (inside of the tubing at the joint). These sytems are most always stainless steel tubing .049 to .065 wall and thicker. These are usually orbital welded with an automatic fusion welder.

Every single part to be welded must have a MTR (material testing report) which tells you everything about the part: what the percentages of the elements used to produce that part, size, ovality (how round it is), exact length (center to end), smoothness (RA defined by the specifications), and whether the systen requires electro-polished tubing and fittings or it may be mechanically polished.

Needless to say, this type of work requires alot more expense to build and design and so companies that specialize in the bio-tech, pharmasuidical and electronic systems installation have to charge alot more to the client to build their required piping systems. Did I mention Slope???? Everything built has to have proper drainage as these systems are steam-cleaned to change from one product to the next so everything has to have pitch (usually a minimum of 1/8" per foot). The client will hire an out side QA/QC to verify weld logs and maps along with using their own personnel to contiuously double & triple check these systems, because if the is anything not up to par........the FDA will not approve the system and the whole project (multi-million dollar ventures) will be nothing but shiney scrap metal.

Sorry I got into this too much and if I bored you, but that IS the way it is. The risk is great and so are the profits , but you have to be able to work smart to make it work. If I didn't answer your question than atleast I gave you more information than you had before.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 05-23-2003 11:21

I'm sure I've read it somewhere, but just can't recall where(getting old?). Maybe it was in a quality manual like Giovanni said , I know I looked long and hard yesterday in D1.1 and in the AISC manual and could not find any reference to weld ID's anywhere except in Inspection, where the inspector must use an identifying mark of some kind, to help with traceability of the joints/welds inspected. I do know that the AISC auditors always look for ID's on the welds when they are in here doing our yearly audit. I have the welders circle their stamp with a paint stick or soap stone so it it easily identified. This helps the welders because the longer it takes them to find the mark, the more time the auditor has to come up with more questions for that welder. When I point this out to the welder, he has no problem circleing his stamp. The welders get so nervous when the auditors start the line of questioning to see if they have been educated in how to read WPSs and welding symbols, etc...
Anyway, I was asked yesterday if it was still required of the welders in the field to mark their welds and I couldn't find it in black and white, even though I agree with the practice/policy of doing it.
Thanks for the replies,
John Wright

By CHGuilford (****)

Date 05-23-2003 13:55

John, other than specific customer requirements, I believe it is only the AISC Quality Certification Program that requires traceability for the welders.

(For the benefit of others, I am referring ONLY to structural steel and similar fabrication governed by AISC here, not nuclear work or piping work.)

The actual question on the audit reads "During the inspection process, are the welds traceable to the welders who produce them?". That means there must be some method for the inspector to know who made the welds. There are many ways to do that as long as your company's written procedures are being followed.

The inspector could watch the welder, so he knows who made the welds with no marking necessary. You could have welders mark the drawings for the welds they made. The foreman could keep track of who did the welding. A tracking sheet could be used. Or you can mark each weld as you already do.
Our policy is for welders to mark each weld if multiple persons work on the same pieces, or mark (ID#- all welds) if that person made all welds on that piece . We use soapstone because many of our customers don't allow hard stamping. Once the weld is accepted, the ID# is not maintained unless required otherwise by the contract.

The requirement is to be able to know who did the weld only until the weld is accepted by QC. Conversely if the weld is rejected, the requirement is to evaluate the welder. Having a bad day but ordinarily a good welder? or Yank their certs and get them re-tested! But then records should eventually show the weld is accepted. It really stems from AWS D1.1-2002 Section 6.4, or the equivalent from earlier editions. AISC wants fabricators to be able to demonstrate compliance to that, to show them your "tools". YOU have to decide how simple or complicated you want those "tools" to be.

Chet Guilford

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 05-23-2003 14:33

CHG,
I realize that tubular connections and FEMA and some other specs won't allow a steel stamp to mark with, where instead we use a permanant ink "Sharpie" in a contrasting color to mark with. I have the statement in our Quality Manual that the welders must mark each weld. That was the only place I found it written as such. I guess you are right about the AISC wording the checklist so that you need to be able to trace the welds back to the welder, up to their "Acceptance" and then it probably doesn't matter after the weld is "Accepted". A lot of these type of things are done without really asking "why is it done this way?", "who/what says we have to do this?". Things have been implemented many years ago and we go on day after day doing them without knowing all the reasons they were implemented in the first place.
We just know that it is supposed to be done and do it.
John Wright

By CHGuilford (****)

Date 05-23-2003 15:43

Yeah, I guess we're all creatures of habit. I just like to find out why I have to do things in the first place; not to argue why but to learn. I figure if I undertand why I'm following a procedure then I'll know when I'm not doing it right, and maybe how to make a procedure better. It also keeps me from having my feet held to the fire by someone else who is misinterpreting the requirements.
Chet

By insp76

Date 05-23-2003 16:41

John, I`m not sure what code your working to but if it were ASME Sec.VIII , stamping requirements are described in UW-37(f)(1). Each welder and welding operator shall stamp the identifying number, letter or symbol assigned by the Manufacturer, on or ajacent to and at intervals of not more than 3 ft. etc.... There are about 15 paragraphs of what where and how to stamp the equipment in this code.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 05-23-2003 18:02

We are working to D1.1 Structural Steel code and are governed by the AISC quality programs.
John Wright

By WBI

Date 05-23-2003 18:11

I seem to remember someting in ASME but the following is taken from FEMA 353 Part I

6.6 Welding Inspection
The welder, QC Welding Inspector, and QA Welding Inspector, as appropriate, shall perform the QC and QA tasks indicated in the following list, as amplified by Tables 6-1 and 6-2. Table 6-1 assigns a Process and Visual Inspection Welding Category for each welded joint, depending
on the Seismic Weld Demand and Consequence Categories for the joint indicated on the design drawings. Table 6-2 indicates the specific actions required of the welder, QC Welding Inspector and QA Welding Inspector for joints of each Process and Visual Inspection Welding Category.
This list shall not be considered exclusive of any additional inspection tasks that may be necessary to meet the requirements of the codes or the Quality Assurance Plan. Item 5 on the list is ... 5. Verify that each welder has a unique identification mark or die stamp to identify welds.

The first item on the third page of Table 6-2 is ... Welder identification legible.

By DGXL

Date 05-23-2003 18:54

You guys with fabricator approvals from ICBO, AISC and a few other industry organizations are required to provide traceability of the weld to the welder.

Project specs (as previously noted by others) govern that for most everyone else without "major" fabricator approvals. The work would have to specified in the bid/contract docs if FEMA 353 requirements are applicable.

p.s.: Still waitng for FEMA to fix all the screw-ups and downright erroneous info in the 350-353 documents, there are many.

By CHGuilford (****)

Date 05-23-2003 20:49

As I mentioned before, for AISC structural steel only, all that is required is to be able to identify who did the welding until the weld is found to be acceptable. No requirement for traceability is required beyond that point unless specified by the contract. That is per the AISC program I can't tell you anything for ICBO.
That doesn't mean it isn't a good idea to maintain traceability beyond that, just that it does not have to go beyond that.

CHGuilford

By travislmcqueen Date 05-23-2003 18:54

I know somewhere in D1.1 it specifies the identification of welders. I can't remember where exactly, and I also do not have the code book in my possetion. It probably is under the section listed as "fabrication" and I think there is a paragraph titled "identification", if my memory is correct.

By R. Johnson (**)

Date 05-23-2003 21:28

I was unable to locate any welder identification requirements in AWS D1.1-2002. But there are some inspector identification requirements in 6.5.6.
The inspector is required to insure that the welders are qualified in accordance with section 4 per section 6.4. But that is a documentation issue or validating a welders ability not an identification issue.
Surprisingly I could not even find the word welder mentioned in the fabrication section 5.

By CHGuilford (****)

Date 05-24-2003 13:32

That is correct that D1.1 does not address welder IDs. The AISC Specification also doesn't mention it. It is the AISC Quality Certification program for auditing of companies that addresses this and it does that with the intention of satisfying Section 6.4. Rightfully so, the program assumes that if an inspector can't determine who made a weld, he/she can't verify the weld was made by a qualified person. But the methods are left up to the audited company. Any method of welder ID system can be used as long as it is effective up to the point of the weld being found acceptable by a competent person.
CHGuilford

By travislmcqueen Date 05-27-2003 19:03

O.K. I'm sorry for the mis-information. I guess my memory isn't as I thought it was. Maybe I was thinking of ASME sec VIII.