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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Welding certification/qc question
- - By Daniel Washingt (*) Date 02-07-2018 02:21
Is there anybody out there that I can have messages back in forth with about how to create a quality control program for a company that doesn't have any history of welding specification or quality control in welding? The reason I would like it to be messages and not on the forum is because there are a lot of questions and a lot of explaining what I am trying to accomplish with this question, any help is appreciated
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-07-2018 04:21
Why limit yourself to one helpful opinion? His/her responses may not be correct or not appropriate for your situation.

Al
Parent - - By Daniel Washingt (*) Date 02-07-2018 14:04
Yeah that's true, I just have a lot of questions about what I need to be certified in, what material, coming up with a standard of who can weld pipe and who can't, basically building a welding department without the help of the owners. Also if it's worth it to put all this effort into it if the owners won't care in the end.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-07-2018 17:34
Good observation, it there is little or no support from upper management, it is a waste of time and money.

Al
Parent - - By Maggs47 (**) Date 02-07-2018 17:44
If you think its of value, I'd recommend putting together a cost/benefit analysis for the owners.  If they don't want to go forward at that point, not much else you can do from within the organization.
Parent - - By Daniel Washingt (*) Date 02-07-2018 23:39
Well I don't think money is an issue with upper management believe it or not. They are actually wanting to get an r stamp for our shop and that's where I'm trying to come up with a standard of welding. Granted not all of our welding will be r stamp welding, so whenever there is an r stamp weld obviously that'll be one procedure, but all the other pipe welding they have the mentality "if you can see the arc you can weld pipe", which is very frustrating.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 02-09-2018 18:31
I almost choked on my lunch.

'R' stamps and cavalier attitudes about QC do not go together.  Period.

You also got yourself, employer, and us off and running with more information:  'R' stamps means you are going to be getting into ASME in all its sections pretty deep.  Pipe, for many applications, can also come under ASME.

Thus, you are probably going to be starting by looking at ASME and asking questions about welding procedures, welder qualifications and a QC program based upon that set of codes.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By Daniel Washingt (*) Date 02-10-2018 22:45
I agree, that's why I figure I need to get a better set way of how welding gets done which is why I'm bringing the topic up, but is it worth my time or just let the company spend all this money to fail to get an r stamp.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-13-2018 15:55 Edited 02-15-2018 14:11
Your employer is in for a surprise. Any work involving an "R" stamp will have to involve an Authorized Inspector employed by an insurance carrier willing to provide insurance coverage. No insurance policy, no AI, no "R" stamp.

To begin the process your employer will have to develop a quality control manual and institute a quality control system with personnel that have the appropriate qualifications. The people will be essential to getting an insurance company to provide a policy. The insurance carrier will require notification if there are any changes in key personnel.

Once your employer has an insurance carrier and a QA/QC system that satisfies the insurance carrier, there will be a joint meeting between the interested parties to see whether or not your employer will be issued a stamp. That stamp can be withdrawn any time the insurance carrier decides your employer isn't doing things correctly.

It sounds like your employer should start the process and let the chips fall where they fall. Why do a lot of leg work if it is going to fall on deaf ears? I'm sure they will be enlightened with their first meeting with any one of the insurance companies that provide coverage.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By bozaktwo1 (***) Date 02-14-2018 22:06
I think you need to ask yourself, how invested am I in the future success of this company?  If you don't see a future for yourself there, I'd say toss it to the wind and get some popcorn for the show.  If you're in the position of an accountable manager who has been tasked with this, better get your resume spiffed up.  If, on the other hand, you're an up-and-comer who's doing this because you recognize there's a need, then get your education.  Right here in this forum, you have hundreds, probably thousands of years' worth of experience in welding of all kinds, NDI, QC, and project management.  Sharpen your wits while you're sharpening your pencil, though.  It's the only way to survive in here.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-15-2018 01:46
Pretty sure you Al account for at least 500
Parent - - By Daniel Washingt (*) Date 02-21-2018 00:43
That's a very hard question to answer, I have been there for 8 years, been the "lead" welder which means my welds look the best and I can fabricate. Very growing company, seems they want to take the next step. I got certified 10 years ago under AWS D1.1 I believe, thats all they thought they needed at the time. After doing research for the R stamp I tell them this is code we have to be certified in, and they said then go get certified. Can't find anyone in DFW that says they certify welders to ASME Section IX. Also we had a job come up in the recent weeks that requires a PQR and WPS and welding certification for that, which is sadly amusing to me once I explained to them what all that is. Now they want to buy software to be able to come up with all that, which I'm assuming will come down to me to make all the WPS and PQR and what not. Very strange company I know, I just have so many questions about how the process works. For instance, the first company I worked for I said I have a certification, and they said thats cute you have to pass our test, but they didn't have a certified welding inspector so who would sign off that I was certified to weld for them?
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-21-2018 05:45
The quick response without all the nuances of the code:

Contractors welding to an ASME boiler and pressure vessel code have to qualify their welding procedure specifications (WPS) which usually involves welding a sample and recording the data and test results on a procedure qualification record (PQR).

The welder that welds the test sample is qualified if all the requisite tests are acceptable. The remaining welders then test following the qualified WPS. They must work within the parameters listed by the WPS.

The qualification of the WPS and welders must be under the supervision of the employer. Unlike AWS, ASME doesn't permit the contractor to send them to a third party to take their qualification test. That doesn't mean the contractor can't hire a third party to document the process and perform the requisite tests, i.e., NDE and/or mechanical tests.

The contractor "certifies" the WPS, PQR, and welder by signing and dating the documented attesting to their results of the testing accuracy of the data recorded.

Generally, the contractor cannot hire a "certified" welder off the street and put him or her to work without qualifying and certifying the individual to their qualified welding procedures.

ASME operates under the assumption the contractor has the necessary staff and infrastructure to support their manufacturing operations. In short, there is an employee that understand welding documentation and technology to properly apply the technology, code provisions, and manage said operations to ensure they are in compliance with the appropriate code requirements.

A means of ensuring the contractor in performing as required, stamps are issued to the contractor limiting the scope of the work they can perform after demonstrating they have the personnel with the necessary competencies to comply with the code. To ensure the system works the contractor must have an insurance carrier that employs and Authorized Inspector (AI) that verifies the design drawings and calculations meet the code requirements. The contractor also has an approved quality assurance manual that outlines how the contractor is going to control the work that meets code. The AI verifies the QA manual is implemented and the contractor is doing what was agreed to. The AI will perform a review of the calculations, drawings, materials of construction, manufacturing, and testing required by the code, including a visual examination and witnessing the hydrotest of each completed code compliant vessel or piping. In short, the AI's job is to protect the insurer from mavericks that take short cuts and don't comply with the code or their approved quality manual. For the most part, the system works.

That's it in a nut shell, the Cliff Notes of ASME.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Daniel Washingt (*) Date 02-21-2018 15:57
Thank you! This helps tremendously, so if I create the wps according to the pqr and get it tested per the code, that should certify me per asme section ix to that wps correct?
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-21-2018 19:29
Close. Review ASME Section IX.
Write a WPS (unqualified) based on your best guess of what will work.
Weld a coupon besed on the WPS and record all the data and test results. Assuming the tests results are acceptable:
Write a qualified WPS for production.

The welder that welds the test coupon is qualified if all the test results are acceptable.
Test additional welders per the qualified WPS.

You will need someone to witness and record the test data while you are welding. As one welder told me, "Hey buddy, I can't watch the meters on the machine, record my travel speed, and weld at the same time."

Al
Parent - By Daniel Washingt (*) Date 02-21-2018 22:28
Finally making sense thank you so much.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Welding certification/qc question

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