WPQR form

By M_inspector Date 02-14-2018 18:42

Good Day Gents,
I have a question regarding the WPQR form presented in AWS D1.1 Ed. 2015/Annex M.
In the 3rd paragraph, “Variables”, we have “Base Metal” in the second line.
My question is why it’s there in the first place as “Base Metal” is not an essential variable according to Table 4.12 and where I find the “Qualified Range”?
The only place where “Base Metal” listed as a variable is Chapter 4, par.4.8.3 Table 4.5 – PQR Essential Variables with Table 4.8 giving the qualification ranges.
Par 4.18 states that WPS essential variable limitations of 4.8 shall apply in addition to performance essential variables of 4.19. In my understanding, that is applicable during actual welding of the test joint.
The last sentence of 4.18 says that the WPQR shall list all of the applicable variables of Table 4.12, which is normal.

Then why the proposed form in Annex M asks for Base Metal qualification range?

By 803056

Date 02-14-2018 21:10

The form is generic and not limited to AWS D1.1.

Al

By M_inspector Date 02-15-2018 13:27

Thank you for the answer Al,

My problem is that we have a client that took it literally and ask us to correct our forms as they don't respect the one shown in the code.
Code is always right... Client is always right ...
And I don't have the right argument to fight this....
In my opinion, the code should not include an example which is not fully applicable.

By 803056

Date 02-15-2018 14:09 Edited 02-16-2018 04:57

Unfortunately there are a lot of stupid people in the world. Many of them can read, but have limited capacity to understand what they read or are selective in what they read. In this case, unless the project specifications included a statement that stipulated the welding documentation had to be as shown in the Annex of AWS D1.1, the Owner should not be permitted to strong arm the contractor after the fact.

Reading AWS D1.1-2015, Annex M, last sentence of the introduction: "Variations of these forms to suit the user's needs is permitted." It is pretty clear the use of the forms is not mandatory.

The forms are samples with examples for the uneducated or inexperienced. It is intended to be an educational aid, not a requirement. It shows what type of information needed and where to place that information. However, I do not use those forms. My forms usually include more information, not less. I've yet to have an Owner or Engineer reject my documentation because I didn't use the AWS format. As long as all the essential variables are listed by your form/record, in any order, it is compliant with AWS D1.1.

Al

By kcd616

Date 02-16-2018 02:02

let us start here
it is LOCAL building code & planing that is TOP dog
or any other one ie goverment ie nuke, highway, ect, etc etc.......
forget AWS code and the owner, engineer or contractor
work with the LOCAL building and planing department
they are the ones to issue the COO (certificate of occupancy)
just my thoughts
sincerely,
Kent

By 803056

Date 02-16-2018 04:55 Edited 02-16-2018 05:11

But, as a government agency they can't pull rules or requirements out of the thin air. When they take a position it has to be base on rule of law, not personal opinion.

This post has made no statement that the "Owner's" position was anything more than their personal preference. As I stated, if the project specifications included a statement that all welding documentation must be formatted per AWS D1.X Annex Y, then the Owner/Engineer has grounds to insist the requirements of the project specification be met. In the absence of a written requirement, the Owner cannot arbitrarily change the terms of the contract (project specification) unilaterally.

If you, Ken, go to an automobile dealership and order a new red car and the dealership delivers said red car, you cannot change your mind at the time of delivery and demand a green car without compensating the dealership for the red car they delivered. You may work out a deal with the dealership, but it is going to cost you some consideration.

I had a recent case where a client specified the pressure piping (4500 psi) was to be designed, fabricated, and installed per ASME B31. When the contractor was done, it was discovered the contractor used ASME B31.9. I had to tell my client he would have to pay the piper because as the Owner, he was responsible to determine which pressure piping code (B31.1, B31.3, etc.) was applicable. By simply stating B31, the Owner was leaving it up to the contractor to choose the code he wanted to use. There were plenty of other red flags that should have alerted the Owner there was a problem, but the warnings went unheeded. It was an expensive lesson learned.

Al