I'm just starting my venture into learning to weld. I've been trying to do my homework by searching the Internet, reading the "Welders Handbook" by Finch and visited one of my local welding suppliers. (Also plan to take an evening course at my local vocational high school to get some hands on instruction on the various types of welding. The thing is the course isn't till October and I'm anxious to start earlier.) My interest lies in the area of hobby/small farm work. I would like to be able to fix the broken welds in the corral panels where the horses have broken them (Wife gets horse I get to learn to weld!!! Good by me.) I would also like to be able to eventually build some attachments for my small tractor and other stuff around the house.
I think I’m pretty much set on starting out learning MIG welding since I’m on my own to learn. My dilemma comes up with equipment choice. The guy at the supply store was telling me I should look at the Miller 210 not to bother with the 135 or 175. I'm not necessarily looking for whether or not Miller vs. Lincoln vs. someone else is the right choice (Although all opinions are welcomed) but rather the power I need. If I go the larger unit it pretty much kills my budget, and I’ll have to wire the shop with a 220v line. Both are manageable but am I really doing overkill because some sales rep wants to sell me a more expensive a machine then I need.
The deal is I want to make sure that I have a tool that I can learn with and still accomplish the fix-it and small project tasks I have in mind i.e. welding table, small attachment for the tractor. With the plan to take the course in October to see Stick and TIG welding as well as MIG I may find that one of these is something I would find useful and want to invest in equipment for them. I don’t want to totally tap out my budget unless the smaller machines are just not worth it and I should invest more now and cross the bridge of other equipment in the future.
Sorry for the long post, but I thought the more info about what I’m looking to do would help with responses. Also thanks for everyone that posts here this site has been a great resource even for someone as new as I am.
Thank you
Hey Chris, I just started welding a few months ago myself. I did all the research, looked into all the machines and decided on either a Lincoln SP175 Plus or a Millermatic 175. I ended up getting the Miller due to a screw up on the Lincoln order by my supplier. The 175 units are 220v, so that's a given. I have just been doing general welding, built a table, cart for the welder, plant hanger pole for the patio and getting ready to build some tie-down racks for hauling my dirt bikes & mtn. bikes in my truck. After doing some reading here, it seemed like the 220v units would be better money spent. I had a 220 dryer line right on my garage wall so, rewiring it to the plug I need was nothing. That said, my 175 will weld up to 1/4" effectively, meaning in the hands of the right welder it should pass a structural test. The reality of hobby welding (in my opinion)is not going to be working with that heavy material. More than likely you'll be doing some tubing up to 1/8" wall, but probably more like 14ga., some angle up to maybe 3/16" and just tacking stuff together. Now just because you get a 135amp, 110v welder doesn't mean you can't weld your 3/8" top on your table or attach some 1/4" angle supports to some 14ga tubing (in this case you have to lower your settings so you don't burn through the thinner material anyway.) As long as what you're doing is not "critical" then go for it. By critical I mean, if your safety or someone elses is in jepardy by what you're welding...that's critical. If you weld a few 1/4" plates together for a gate hinge or something, even with a 135 amp, with practice it should work fine. I'm glad I got the 175 vs. the 135. I understand they weld a little nicer and you're not running your machine at it's upper duty cycle all the time. For me the 210 would have been WAY overkill and I could certainly get by with a 135. If your farm stuff will have you welding a lot 1/4" & larger material, then get a 210. As you've seen the 210 is much larger machine too, harder to transport, etc.
As far as learning to MIG weld...errr, melt some metal together...get a machine, read more posts here and your manual, and you'll be on your way! Stick some stuff together and beat it apart with a hammer to see how you're doing. You'll start to develop a sense of what's going on in the weld puddle. Also, get an auto darkening helmet. I got a BR Welder (Western Safety off brand) on ebay for $50 and works perfect for me.
Good luck! I haven't had this much fun building stuff in a long time. There is just something about the permanence of metal.
By lesnev
Date 05-25-2003 20:45
Dirtrider,
Chris,
I'm in a similar boat. Looking for a nice home use welder. Have either of you heard of Daytona MIG? If so, what did you find out?
Thanks,
Wayne
I have recently started welding and just picked up a used Millermatic 172. Really nice wire feed unit. I am amazed what those things are capable of even in my hands. One thing that I notice though , you need to have fairly clean material to get good fusion with them. (At least with solid wire and c-25 gas) I took a short smaw class recently and learned about stick welding rods like 6010. This rod is what one neds when the metal is full of crap at the weld area. These bad boys burn right though stuff my wire unit would have real problems sticking a good weld onto. I think there are situations when a good ac/dc stick welder would be a better choice for someone just starting. I've never tried low amp/low diameter rods for sheet metal, but many say it can be done with practice. The big problem for me is finding the time to make some of the stuff on my list. Good tool for anyone who enjoys fixing/fabricating stuff. Even if at the hobby level. Don't be afraid to buy a brand name used machine. It'll most likely perform better than new "off-brand" stuff, and most likely have more resale value if upgrading is considered in the future. I waited a bit for mine to show up, but I'm glad I did.
Thanks for the advice, it's greatly appreciated. I think the 175 is going to be the right machine.
the 175 is a 220V machine, but if you plan on making parts for your tractor you're gonna need all the power you can get. the 175 will weld 3/8" steel in the hands of a good welder. however, with a stick welder you can get a 220V "buzz box" AC/DC welder that goes up to at least 130 amps and you'll be able to weld any thickness of steel. and stick welding is very versatile...you can weld outside in the wind and not worry about it messing w/ the arc.
Two rules that seem to apply regardless of the hobby or subject:
When in doubt buy the better of the two.
A cheap tool is often the most expensive tool (after you replace it with the one you really need).
Bill
Good reply Arc to an equally good original post by Chris.
The more details people like Chris provide, the better the forum users can assist in responding.
DGXL and Bill,
Ditto
John Wright
Chris,I have had a sp175 plus,and it's a great little machine(great arc).That said,the Miller 210 has enough power to do a little spray-arc welding with the right gas,and will run shielded flux core much better.I think both those machines might be Lincoln,and Millers best short-arc machines.Not counting the powermig 300,and some of Millers inverters.Although they can hold their own against about any of them with mild steel welding.I will bet you will love either one.I think you need to buy both.
I have been welding for several years now, not as a full-time career, but fairly often. I do quite a bit of heavy welding (some 1/2" plate, farm equipent repairs, ect) and blew my budget on a Miller 251 from www. cyberweld.com. That is the cheapest place I could find--a brand new welder was less expensive that a used local welder.
I considered a Miller or Lincoln 210/200 but opted for the greater power of the 251. I thought it would probably be overkill but I have been using the higher end power more than the lower end lately. I have used a welder too small for the job before and that does not work well. For a few dollars more you can have a machine that will handle anything you can throw at it and will be built heavier. The duty cycle in the ranges for thinner material will be 100% which is really nice. Nothing is more frustrating than waiting for a hot welder to cool off so you can finish a project that needs completed quickly.
You can always turn a big welder down to handle thin material, but you cannot turn a little welder up to hadle thick material.
Finch says to start with an oxyacetylene torch.
I am curious why people choose a wire-feed welder as their first welder, or welder of choice. My understanding is that in wire-feed vs. TIG the wire feed is faster but the TIG is more versatile. Slow, yes, but for non-production welding...?
I've done more TIG than any other kind. Maybe the OA torch is more of a purist's machine or something, but it seems like TIG gives you all the advantages of OA in terms of control (more, really) just without the mess and more precisely. It would seem like an ideal machine to learn on.
Chris, if I were you I'd give some thought to TIG. The machines can typically be run as stick welders, too -- that 6010 rod (isn't that even called "Farmer's Rod?") is just what you need on those corrals. And you'll get a better feel for the puddle, etc. TIGing than you will with a wire feed unit.
Chris (another one)
I think many get the wire feed units to weld both thick and thin stocks- at a budget price. No doubt about it, a good middle-o-the-road stick/ tig machine can really do everything a weekend welder needs to do. Speed is seldom an issue with my DIY welding projects. Most are also looking for the easy out in terms of good welds with minimal practice. All this said though, I am still kicking around the idea of selling my wire feed and getting a stick/tig unit. Some of the prices on tig units are pretty scary for my budget. The inverters look awful cool for home shop use. Hook up any voltage, small, portable. No AC though.(unless thou spendith big bucks).
MIG is easier to learn and to run. If you are going to get a course for welding, they will probably teach you SMAW (or stick welding) first. If I were you, I would get a miller 140 with auto-link. This unit you can stick weld and tig weld with a standard 110-120 outlet. It will allow you to use 1/8" 6011 or 6010 electrodes, which as someone suggested is a good all purpose rod, inexpensive, yet versitile. If you were exposed to tig welding then this machine is great for that too.
The downside to mig (in my opinion) is that it works well on new material, but it doesn't function well in a maintainance situation. If you have rusted or dirty steel that you are trying to repair, you would really have to work to clean it up to clean base metal to mig weld it. Also, if you wanted to hard surface, say teeth for a back-hoe or something like that....mig would not be a good choice.
The option with "Auto-Link" for this machine is that you would be able to use a 220 volt service when you could afford to install it. There are limitations with 110 as you would be wise to have a 30 amp circuit breaker, but that is a cheaper alternative than running a 220 service for your machine. This machine adjusts (internally to the input voltage) so all you would need when you decide to use 220 is a plug adapter which is really cheap.
Anyway, you should research what type of welding would be the most useful for you particular needs before running out and buying a mig welder.
I have heard that some of the inverter stick/tig units such as maxstar 140 do not run all smaw rods equally well. In particular 6010 has been mentioned as a "not so great rod" to run on this machine. Maybe that's not so as I've never been able to compare. Can't agree more on the rusty metal welding. Many times you'll encounter old,dirty,painted stuff that needs a weld burned right through it. gmaw just isn't the ticket here in my opinion. Just food for thought.
First I have to say that the posts here have been great. The information and suggestions everyone has been willing to provide for someone as new as I am is very much appreciated. I went to another local supplier to talk with them and actually found out that on the 18th of this month they are having an open house with a bunch of vendors and demo’s. Lincoln and Miller reps are suppose to be there. I’m hoping that I’ll get some good information as well as maybe some package deals since I’m sure they each will want to sell there stuff.
As far as type of welding to consider I have to say my first thought was SMAW, but as I researched the different types I’ve been considering MIG because in most information I’ve gotten it seems to suggest that MIG would be easier to learn. Second since the only local course isn’t until fall I’m trying to start with a method I can learn on my own. (Definitely planning to take the course wish it was sooner). As far as considering TIG it seems that once I get some experience it would definitely be something I want to learn, but at this point since I haven’t tried anything yet I didn’t think I should consider something that seemed to be something left to the more experienced craftsman.
One thing that I think I’ve definitely seen is that really there can be case made for all three types of welding SMAW, MIG and TIG depending on the work you want to do. Hopefully I’ll get some more good info on the 18th from the reps and that I get so hooked that once I get going I’ll have to justify to my wife why I need more then one type of welder.
Thanks again, and please continue giving me any ideas any of you have. I will post my progress and I’m sure tons of questions as I start my new venture.
By the way I do have one question at the moment. Power in the shop maybe an issue. Currently there’s a 110v 20amp circuit I can use, but using my compressor even right now causes a power surge when starting up (it does run) and the I have to make sure the pool filter is off or I blow the circuit. I’m thinking trying to add a 220 line is going to be a challenge. I may have to extend my budget to include a portable generator is there anything I should be aware of or as long as I get a get a good one that can handle a 220v /20amp connection I would then be able to have the flexibility to consider a 220v welder?
Sorry for the long post again I promise once I get going I’ll ask my questions more concisely.
Chris --
I put in a 220V line in my house; it is fairly easy stuff. Get a book or two, read up on it, and then put it in yourself. The hardest thing is snaking the massive cable. I would not limit your welding choices to those which will operate on 110 20A comfortably. Not when you can put in a new line in an afternoon. Or if you fear becoming a smoking ember, get an electrician to do it.
Chris
I also say consider put in a 220V line rather than buying a generator unless you want to have a real portable rig by putting welder and generator on back of truck.
Cost of running generator will be higher than power from pole plus you will have to deal with noise and poisonous fumes and then when it breaks you get to spend more money on maintenance.
If you don't feel comfortable putting in line yourself talk to the electrician and see what bull work you can do to reduce the cost. He may tell you how to route it and then come in and install the breaker and plugs and check your work.
If you only want 220V at 20A then #12 wire is adequate and neither expensive or too difficult to run. If you need a long run say greater than 50' go to #10 which still isn't too bad. Of course, you might be wise to consider what other tools etc you might want to power in your shop and put in heavier wire and a sub-panel - now your budget is going to creep up!!!
Good luck
Bill
