Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Measuring Fillet Weld Size with Incomplete Fusion
- - By dbatten Date 05-16-2018 21:59
Regarding macroetch testing acceptance criteria ( of AWS D1.1 (2015)…

On a macro sample (convex profile), how do you measure the minimum leg size of a fillet weld with incomplete fusion at the root? 
Do you measure the theoretical leg length or the actual leg length (theoretical leg length minus the incomplete fusion length)?

If the weld profile was instead concave would that change the answer to the above?
I've heard that the weld size is measured as the throat in this case.

Providing answers with references from D1.1 would be much appreciated.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-17-2018 13:59
If there is incomplete fusion in the root, the weld fails. The weld must exhibit fusion to the root, but not necessarily beyond the root.

Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 05-17-2018 17:45
The question is not, 'how do you measure' but instead should be, 'WHY WOULD YOU measure' a weld leg when it is obvious the fusion is not to the root? 

If there is good reason to measure the leg, it would appear obvious you would only measure the area that displays fusion.  But, per most any code and application I am aware of there would be no need.  It failed the moment you were able to determine fusion did not go all the way to the root.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By dbatten Date 05-17-2018 19:00
Thanks for the responses.

I'm aware that the weld fails due to the incomplete fusion regardless, but am filling out a report (poorly written) that lists each acceptance criteria of separately. I was unsure of what to indicate for (3), "Minimum leg size shall meet the specified fillet weld size", as a measurement is implied in the report.

Simply say "N/A Due to incomplete fusion" and call it a day or actually provide a measurement of only the fused area as Brent suggested?
This is probably just a matter of opinion at this point.
Parent - By Steelslinger (**) Date 05-17-2018 20:01
I would vote for "N/A - Incomplete Fusion of the Root"
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 05-18-2018 14:27
Good Day,

Lets back up and answer a couple of your other questions as well as the most recent one.

So, all fillet welds are actually measured by throat dimension.  That is how the Engineer has calculated the required strength of the weld.  And, it is usually this measurement that is on the engineered drawings for proposals and bids.  Then, the detail calls out the welds per leg size based on the D1.1 or other applicable code equation for such since this is the best, fastest, easiest way for welders and inspectors to check weld size.  We ASSUME it is the correct size based upon all the previous generations of successful welding with a given process to a specified WPS with welders proven qualified to get fillet welds with fusion to the root. 

SSSOOO, does the answer change if the weld is concave instead of convex?  NO.  Only the part of the fillet weld gauge used to inspect the weld changes in order to make sure the correct leg and thus throat dimension is achieved.  The concave gauge is using both a determined throat and leg to make sure it is of proper size; not really sure I described that well but it works. 

Now, if you really want to include a dimension on the report to illustrate how poorly the weld was fused, go ahead.  Nothing says you can't.  But, your statement that it is N/A or just 'Rejected for Incomplete Fusion to the Root' is adequate. 

The code isn't going to tell you how to fill out the report and there are some items that are difficult to word on a standard report.  Too much detail can mess things up.  Use a Supplemental page and put something like 'See Note 1' on the report.  Then place that note on the other page. 

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 05-18-2018 15:01
Here are some slides that speak to Brent's assertion that fillets are measured by throat dimension.

This is true...  An isosceles triangle from root to toes is used for the measurement.  

Calculations of the leg length is applied to flat or convex fillets and marked on the leaf gage.

Calculations of the actual throat are applied to a concave leaf gage, with a mark that is equivalent to leg length on a convex gage to avoid confusion and calculations by the inspector.

Hope I said that right.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Measuring Fillet Weld Size with Incomplete Fusion

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill