Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / Government Shut Down
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-06-2019 16:23
I have a suggestion; withhold the pay of all government officials, elected or appointed, for twice the duration of the government shut down.

To point out the ridiculousness of building a wall along the southern border, it was Trump during his campaign that said, “If you build a wall, they will simply get a longer ladder.” Stupid is as stupid does.

Al
Parent - - By SWN1158 (***) Date 01-07-2019 12:02
If the government has shut down, does this mean they'll stop taking taxes out of my check ?  :)
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 01-07-2019 14:34
Nope, the last time the government was shut down to shove the unsustainable heathcare system down our throat, they kept withdrawing taxes from our checks.
Parent - - By Tyrone (***) Date 01-08-2019 12:00
Your Obamacare was going in the right direction.  Just needs tweaking to optimize it like Canada's.
Parent - - By mcostello (**) Date 01-09-2019 03:14
My Daughters health care cost went from appx. $200 a month to over $500, seems like the wrong direction to Me.
Parent - - By Tyrone (***) Date 01-09-2019 12:23
Like I said, tweaking is needed to bring it from $200/mo to almost $0 like all Canadians.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 01-09-2019 20:39 Edited 01-09-2019 20:42
Reforming the enormous profit taking from insurance companies

Reforming the enormous profit taking from big pharmaceutical companies

Reforming the enormous profit taking from big Hospital corporations

is not a tweak

The absurd cost of health care are totally driven by the above 3 things.   How in America, will it be possible for the government to demand that companies are making too much money?????   That's not how America works.

The Government controls Dairy pricing in the U.S. and that's about the only thing.   

Obama care put the cart before the horse.... Demanding people pay a tax to be insured for healthcare, before they dealt with the rapacious profit taking by the overlords of the health care industry.   

It's a monumental problem   not a tweak.

You will also discover if you look, that Republican and Democrat U.S. legislators are pretty equally supported by gigantic PAC contributions from the above...   Bipartisan bribery to keep the system exactly as it is.
Parent - - By Tyrone (***) Date 01-10-2019 12:26
Good points Lar,
I guess it will always come down to money and as long as people profit, it's an uphill battle.

Be interesting to hear what the new Dems propose for their free health care for all plans.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 01-10-2019 12:46
Yeah guys, I want to see how this is planned to pan out for NY and CA without penalizing any particular group of people with additional taxes to pay for it. Free for all isn't free for all.

As for the "wall" that is being held hostage...that is a can that has been kicked down the street for way too long by previous administrations for decades that simply didn't have the intestinal fortitude it takes to take the bull by the horns and make it happen. Everyone has agreed that it was needed to control some sense of security until now that a particular "someone" who has taken up the torch and is willing to carry it. We can find hundreds of billions to give to our enemies yet nothing to help us control the flocks of people who are here illegally. Funny how that when someone gets in there and is actually willing to put in some work, everyone is against him. Politicians have figured out they can make a really good living "serving" the people by stirring around acting like they are doing something when in reality all they are doing is stirring around looking busy for decades...and we have memories so short that we actually think they are doing a great job looking out for us until we look back at how they have flip-flopped on everything to keep from actually doing something productive for America. Term limits may help weed out those career politicians who simply stir around for decades and rake in a nice paycheck for doing absolutely nothing.
Parent - - By SWN1158 (***) Date 01-10-2019 14:13
Excellent, John !
Parent - - By LToca85 (**) Date 01-10-2019 15:21
Make the wall!!! I got a ladder and shovel lol
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 01-10-2019 17:28
There will be several doors, no need to climb over or dig under...LOL, no need to make extra work to get in.
Parent - - By LToca85 (**) Date 01-10-2019 18:22
I've heard those lines take years if not more than a decade, and most wait those years and don't even get to go in. I personally would like to eat sooner.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 01-10-2019 20:38
From my limited experience with this issue, it seems for those who overstayed their Visa that it does take additional time to get the paperwork straight again.
Parent - - By LToca85 (**) Date 01-10-2019 21:26
Maybe reworking the issue might be easier than actually getting there. I have DACA and from that experience I can tell you it is the case. Getting it was much longer than reapplying. Now DACA in no way took years to get approved but my grandma did apply for a travel visa several times, she finally got it and after 15 years of us not seeing her she finally got it. The process took years for her to get approved and quite expensive but we got it done.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 01-10-2019 21:31
Glad to have you :cool:
Parent - - By LToca85 (**) Date 01-10-2019 21:33
Glad to be here. :grin:
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 01-10-2019 21:46
I talk with welders on the jobs that I'm inspecting and many are from countries South of our border...they all say that they are glad to be here. I appreciate them and the good work that they do, as it makes my field inspections go much easier when I don't have to stop and document welding issues that need to be repaired/corrected....when I do find something, they seem very eager to fix it while I'm there onsite.
Parent - By LToca85 (**) Date 01-10-2019 22:03
Ohh that yeah they just don't want the evil inspector to go back lol. But all jokes aside yes MOST Latino workers are like that.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-12-2019 20:39 Edited 01-12-2019 20:43
Walls are easily breached given some time and energy. People have been climbing over and under walls for thousands of years. Concertina razor barbed wire is less expensive and would accomplish the same goal for a lot less money and take less time to erect. The critters will still tunnel under it, but you don't even have to build a wall of concertina barbed wire, just lay several rows of it to make it wide enough no one can jump across. It is a deterrent that give the border guards time to interdict and that's the best a wall of concrete or "steel slats" can do.

Why build a wall to appease Trump's ego? In a couple of months, he’s either going to be in prison or living in Moscow under an assumed name. 

Al
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 01-25-2019 02:24
Just to reply to your initial comment Al  (BTW hi you smf, missed you in my hiatus) 

Screw any government compensation, may be a hit to some appointed ones on lower levels but as far as elected......nobody goes through that much work for the salary at the end of the rainbow.....when mayors and senators are spending 15-45 million dollar on campaigns.....the salary is not what they are in it for or selected for the folks putting up the money. I know you know this already...

How about lobbying and association with such is made into law as a treasonous act punishable by death.  Only a court elected by the people on a national level may judicate such cases.  And that is the ONLY cases they adjudicate.  How about an independent elected prosecution dept and that is the only cases they deal with.   Wow they would have and enormous amount of power and sway....how about to be elected to either service the public got to vote on the job you did ......and you suffered the same penalty or stay  as those you adjudicated.  Modern world...internet... live voting.....wow.  

Lobbying is just legalized bribery with a nicer name...that is the primary motivation to be a senator or congressman.   Sure we have honest people participating, but get real...most are lawyers....

As far as physical walls go......yea kids just read your history....walls are great, they have an expiration date.....over the course of human history military (violence/effectiveness) effective presence is what has maintained geographical borders not bricks.  Walls are stupid they cannot react to situations.  Training all your military snipers on top of towers or a wall on your borders has proven to be a quite effective deterrent into misc civilian border incursions..just ask the soviet block countries...who wants to go there?  Do we need to?  My $.02
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-27-2019 15:24
"Expiration date", I like that!

Castle walls have crumbled for thousands of years. Over, under, or through, sooner or later they are breached.

Al
Parent - - By NMWELDING (**) Date 01-30-2019 23:09
If you believe in open borders, then you and I can kiss our well paying welding jobs goodbye. Already jobs on drilling rigs in West Texas are not paying as well as they used to.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-31-2019 03:34
It isn't a case of open borders, it is a case of doing something that effective. Walls can be climbed over or tunneled under in short order.

One has to ask the question of what draws the illegals here? For the most part it is the money that pulls them North. So, if that is the case, why do we go after the illegals? There’s twenty more for everyone that is caught. Go after the people that pay them to come here. Why can the corporations hire them, pay substandard wages and suffer no more than a slap on the wrist when they are caught? Why does president bone spur or any other employer hire them if he's is so anti-immigrant? The answer is pretty evident; because they work for substandard wages and there is little or no penalty if the employer is caught. At most, he might receive a small fine for hiring the illegals. He’s a lot of hot air, he’s a criminal, but he knows the penalties are paltry.

As I said, go after the employers. When the jobs dry up, the migration will become a trickle because they won’t bother coming across the border.

Look at your situation. You said the good paying jobs are drying up. Why? Ask why the jobs are drying up? Who is taking the jobs at substandard wages and working conditions? Why are the employers hiring them? What are the repercussions if the employer is caught? ICE comes along, arrests the migrants and the employer hires the next batch to replace the ones that got hauled away. How long do you think that would continue if the corporate CEO spent six weeks, six months, or six years in jail for each illegal found on the site or the shop?

The fence or the wall is ineffective, it is a waste of effort, time, and money.

Trump could care less if there is a wall. It is a talking point. If he was really interested in the wall he would have agreed to the "deal" offered while the Republicans held the congress. He sabotaged it when he vetoed it. But it sure does appeal to the base that listens to bone spur’s BS.

Just my opinion.

Al
Parent - - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 01-31-2019 13:21
For those of us that live in South Texas, we can assure those that don't, that a barrier/wall works. The company I work for built 40 miles of the wall under President Bush. President Trump did not Veto anything. As the blurb below out of the Hill indicates, he threatened to Veto it if it did not do something about the chain migration, and give border security more authority to deal and remove illegal immigrants from the country. I do agree that employers should be held accountable for hire these people, up too and including steep fines and jail time,  and I understand why they are coming here, too better themselves. But, we have to get a handle on this issue, and as some have mentioned in this thread, we have been kicking this can down the road for years now.  I think President Trump is doing a good job. I like him and I voted for him. I think it's up to us to support him where we can, and appose when we think he is wrong, but what I don't understand is some of the disparaging remarks from some. I don't agree with that, and there should be a certain amount of respect giving to the President, no matter whom it is. Just my opinion.

From the Hill.
"The White House in warning the president would veto it said the bill “would undermine the safety and security of American families and impede economic growth for American workers” and result in “a flood of new illegal immigration in the coming months.”

The Department of Homeland Security separately said the proposal “ignores the lessons of 9/11” and “destroys” the ability of the department to remove undocumented immigrants from the country."
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-31-2019 16:19
We all have the right to hold an opinion and we all have the right to disagree.

I didn't vote for President Bone Spur and I find it impossible to respect a person that appears to have so little respect for anyone else. Over the last couple of years just about every time he screams "Fake News" it turns out the fake news is coming from him.

This isn't the forum to discuss politics, so I'll try to refrain from doing so. However, we have a discussion that's underway. Back to the wall, it might temporarily slow the influx, but they will continue to borrow under or climb over the top of any wall we erect as long as there are jobs waiting for them once they get here.

If one goes back to the Bush recession it will be noted that the influx of illegal immigrants hit a low. The reason is simple enough, there were no jobs waiting for them. We can agree the way to reduce the number of illegal immigrants is to reduce the job opportunities. Put a few CEOs and owners behind bars for a few months and the job opportunities and influx of illegal immigrants will dry up. 

On the other hand, if one looks at the demographics, we are an aging society. There are many job openings that go unfilled because there are few applicants. We need immigrants to fill those job openings. I believe most of us will agree that we want to stem the flow of illegal immigration and encourage the immigration of people with the skills we need to keep industry here in this country. Likewise, there are many low skilled jobs that need to be filled, so it isn't only the highly skilled people we need. We need people to fill the unskilled positions as well. Just ask the farmers that need labor to help them on their farms or the landscapers that help to tend their client's yards or the manufacturers that need worker to meet their demands for unskilled manpower. We don't want to institute a system that places undue burdens on the employer to verify the legal status of the person being interviewed for a job, but it seems certain companies make little or no effort to check the status of the people they hire.

There are no easy solutions, but an expensive, ineffectual wall isn't necessarily the best answer. There are alternatives that may be less expensive, yet just as effective. I personally like the idea of concertina barbed wire. It’s fast to erect and comparatively inexpensive. Concertina is probably just as effective as a wall, with or without slats, but a lot less expensive and a lot faster to erect.

Just my musings.

Al
Parent - - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 02-01-2019 12:20
Absolutely correct. We all have our opinions and that's part of what makes this great country great.
The issue I have is that you continue to throw disparaging names at the President. I believe you can make your comments without doing that. The other thing is, you speak about issues that obviously you no little about. No disrespect intended. I think some of that has to do where you live, and some most likely has to do with your views on this administration.  I work for a large EPC. 49 thousand employees. We build stuff. We built LNG plants. Just finished one out side of DC. We have three more on the books that we are building. We are the #1 Combined Cycle Power house builder in the US. (ENR 2018) I say all that to say this, you are incorrect about being able to get skilled workers. We get them and they are from this country, and, about 30% are younger (below 40 years old). That's not to say, that I don't agree that we are having shortages, we are, and in some crafts they are huge, but it's not too late to rectify that by encouraging young people to pursue the trades. This administration pushes that. We and other companies are doing that. We go to high schools and Jr. Colleges, we participate in Skills USA which is 400,000 students strong. Mike Rowe participates in this effort. If you get a chance, go to the national conference in Louisville Ky. It's eye opening how many kids and young people participate. 
Look, walls, barriers, augmented with technology work. Look at what Israel has done? Have you been to Guatemala ? I have, I go every year. They have barriers, so does Mexico. To keep saying "ineffectual wall" is disingenuous. It works, it has always worked. It's like Novocain, works ever time it's tried.  As far as cost? $25 Billion, in the grand budget scheme of the National budget, is not that much. Unfortunately, anytime the US Government builds something its costs are bloated. Not much we can do about that. But we can get it done and it will work. My thoughts anyway. Al, I leave you this. I think you're one the smartest voices on this forum, hands down, and I respect the heck out of you and your knowledge. I look forward to reading your responses to technical welding queries.

"but an expensive, ineffectual wall isn't necessarily the best answer"
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-01-2019 15:25
Jim I agree with much of what you have to say, but I like to look at all the alternatives rather than only considering one option.

As for this person sitting in the White House; he has earned my disrespect. The country voted for a president, but the country got a Mafia Don want-a-be. Personally, I'm tired of "alternate facts." I call them lies. They aren't misstatements, they are outright lies. I could go on, but it isn't the purpose of this forum.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Jarhead1 (**) Date 02-05-2019 16:15
DT = 2020
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-05-2019 20:13
In the last century a couple of states have elected governors that were serving time in prison at the time of the election. It isn’t that big a stretch to vote for the head of a criminal organization as the president.

One has to question the motives of an elected official that denies secret meetings with the government head of an adversary with no collaborating witnesses, no interpreter, or no one to take notes of the clandestine meeting. I guess that is the meaning of clandestine meeting. One has to wonder why a president would accept the denials of an adversary over the analysis of several security agencies and friendly allies.

We are free to vote our conscience at election time. We’ve fought and died for that right.

Al
Parent - - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 02-07-2019 12:39
Al,
there is clear documentation that Presidents have meet with world leaders privately in the past. President Obama tried to do it with Dmitri Medvedev in 2012 and is overheard through a hot mic telling Dmitri to tell Putin he can negotiate better after the 2012 election. Ronald Reagan during the third summit with Gorbachev met privately with him to move the negotiations forward. There are stories of Eisenhower, and Lyndon Johnson. They met without others in the room. Trump just pulled out of the INF with Russia because of their failure to comply with the treaty for the past 8 years, and has threaten Russia not to try another arms race. So I think your inference that he is in collusion is problematic. Your constant inference that President Trump is doing something wrong is strange at best. As far as Trump not agreeing with security agencies and their assessments ? I wish Bush 43 would have been a lot more skeptical of their assessments prior to going in to Iraq, and a little more forceful of requiring them to give an account of how they missed knowing of the attack on 9/11. We can see JFK was after the Bay of Pigs debacle.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-07-2019 15:02
We simply see things from different prospective Jim.

We'll just have to wait a few years before history speaks.

Al
Parent - By gmatsko Date 03-17-2019 20:07
Trump is using his office not to benefit the American people, but to personally enrich himself as part of a "criminal enterprise."
I cannot respect Donald Trump. He is a criminal with a narcissistic personality disorder. Below is just a few of my reasons.
Let's see there's the federal case against him for unfair rental tactics in the late '70s, early '80s. He decided people of color weren't good enough to live in his buildings. There's the cheating on his first wife with the one who'd become his second and the nasty divorce that followed. There's the porn star Stormy Daniels who he s.....d while married to his present wife and paid off to keep her quiet, (Cohen verified). There's the leaked audio where Trump brags about groping women. There's the 200 illegal Polish immigrants he brought over to work for  for $4 an hour on, I believe it was the Hyatt hotel. They worked 12 hour days removing asbestos with no safety equipment, he made them live in the same building and if they complained he'd threaten to send them back. There's the Trump University that was a fraud  and he had to settle out of court for 25million
There's USFL football franchise he ran into the ground by wanting to compete with the NFL. There's the 4 Atlantic City casinos he bankrupted, an industry where people throw money at you. There's the number of contractors he ran out of business because he refused to pay them. There's the Eastern shuttle, he turned into Trump Air, that he walked away from by refusing to pay a $320 million dollar loan payment.
There's the fact he's a pathological liar, misogynist and blatant racist. There's the fact he's the worst dealmaker there ever was. 18 months in office, where Republicans control both houses, and his biggest accomplishment is a tax cut for the wealthy. He heaps praise on dictators and despots and pisses off our allies, some of whom have been so for hundreds of years.
I could go on but I'd hope you get my point. Everything I've written is a verifiable fact. Go to google and enter
Shep Smith, (Fox news)  shuts down Sean Hannity, ( Fox News). WOW. Also google 'Racial views of Donald Trump'. Over 34 Trump associates
have been indicted or pleaded guilty to criminal activities. :twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:
Parent - - By vn88betcom Date 12-22-2019 06:50
Just needs tweaking to optimize it like Canada's.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-22-2019 14:48 Edited 12-22-2019 19:57
It will be interesting to see what happens when Trump is no longer under the cloak of protection provided by Barr. It is hard to imagine  Barr hasn't been disbarred as a lawyer.

Al
Parent - By 522029 (***) Date 12-22-2019 16:08
That was Michelle and Bary that were dis-barred and lost their license to practice law.

Griff
Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / Government Shut Down

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill