All around weld callout confusion.

By zanic07 Date 05-22-2019 21:47 Edited 05-22-2019 21:52

I know this may be a dumb question but I hope to end a debate on this weld callout that has been kicking around the office for some time now.

The callout itself is a 7.5mm arrow side fillet with an all-around symbol. The problem is our quoting department has quoted it as welding on only on the arrow side of the joint but following the contour of the J shaped bracket with no weld on the other side. I asked quoting to go back to the customer for clarification and the customer responded with "we want it welded all around" which as you could guess didn't clear much up around the office.

I believe the customer is expecting us to weld the entirety of the gusset(both sides as well as all ends and corners). Any clarification is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

By 803056

Date 05-23-2019 00:58 Edited 05-23-2019 01:28

"Yea, but you know what I want!"

How many times have you heard that?

I would argue the welding symbol isn't correct, because you can't weld all around the clipped corners. A weld all around would mean the weld is continuous, no interruptions in the continuous weld, and everything is accessible to be welded. Clearly, there is no easy way to wrap the weld around the clipped corners unless one is to fill in the clipped corner with weld. That could get ugly real quick.

Back to the drawing board to better define what the client wants to be welded.

Just my opinion.

Al

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 05-23-2019 11:20

If it were me and I wanted it welded on both sides, I would call out a double sided fillet weld and point to the 3 places that will be welded on each side of the stiffener.

By SWN1158 (***)

Date 05-23-2019 11:35

The only other way to weld all around is to clip enough of the corners to give ample access for the welder to wrap them. The only time I've done this is when the member is galvanized, where a larger clipped corner allows the galvanizing to flow freely, which keeps it from globbing up at the inside corners and makes it easier for the welder to wrap the corners. If you have to fill the clipped corners, only clip enough corner to clear the radius of the member they're welded to, which should make it easier to weld and eliminate the need for wrapping, as Al said.

If your quoting department misquoted the labor, was the weld shown to be all around on the drawing they used to estimate the weld labor? If not, you should be able to submit a change order for the additional labor.

You didn't mention the welding code you're using, but D1.8 has specific details about clipped corners of continuity stiffeners, keeping them away from the k area, and I would think that if it's ok to clip more of the corners on a project that's required to meet seismic criteria, it would certainly be acceptable otherwise.

By 803056

Date 05-23-2019 14:25 Edited 05-23-2019 14:29

The k-area only applies to hot rolled beams if I remember correctly.

Just a point of curiosity, in the case of galvanized parts, would it be better to weld one side so the acid pickling can drain freely and the HDG can flow into the open side of the joint by capillary action? If the stiffener was welded all around, there would be a cavity between the faying surface that is not penetrated and fused by the weld. The gas filled unfused region at the ends of the stiffener would become pressurized when placed in the molten galvanize bath. The pressure could be substantial. I recollect seeing several photographs John provided where the components cracked. Were the cracks caused by the high gas pressure? I'm not sure the cause of the cracking was actually determined.

I believe John hit the nail on the head. Detailers are notorious for being sloppy when it comes to welding symbols. I couldn't count the number of times the drawings called out CJP groove welds because they are easier to draw or a particular weld detail was used because the detailer saw it on a different drawing. A call to the customer for clarification will most likely get the response, "Just weld it, you know what is needed!"

Al

By SWN1158 (***)

Date 05-23-2019 14:53

The k area typically applies to wide flange members that are rotary straightened. I was just trying to make a point that if the corners can be clipped larger on a seismic job, a reasonable assumption would be that they would be acceptable on a member under a less strict code, but it sounds like its not an option in this case.