Education Evaluation System

Date 07-03-2003 22:05

I would like to get some additional input and viewpoints on the below questions. I read some very good opinions on various subjects and appreciate the participation. Those committees in charge of the purse strings in the community college districts continue to base the welding instructor's pay on education, degrees. How many welders who are competent at the expert level have a four year degree. I believe that education is important but it should encourage professional development in the relative field. Unless a welder pursues a welding engineering degree why does the narrow minded thinking of the academia world persist.? Professional engineers are required to maintain their license thru continuing ed which are usually seminars offered thru respective Organizations ,ASME, AISC, ASCE etc. Years ago I was teaching welding at a community college and I studied and passed the CWI. The school would not allow any advancement on the salary schedule because I did not take the course or certification from a approved Academic Institution. What is going to take to bring about change in the system. Any comments

By JTMcC

Date 07-03-2003 22:30

As I've said before, the local community college is not where the vast majority of highly qualified welders are being produced. The community college seems to be geared either to the home hobbiest type, or educating welders for a local manufacturing plant. Both require a low level of skill. This is not the place to go to work expecting a large salary.

JTMcC.

By cccasey (**)

Date 07-07-2003 18:44

Firstpass,
I agree with you whole heartedly, acedamia regularly uses tunnel vision when faced with policy irregularities. I've faced the same problem with my school. As a CWI and CWE with NDTand welding Certs, the administrators do not recognize this during review time. As frustrating as this is I still enjoy teaching both at the high school and community college level. I am currently networking with other welding instructors throughout the state to address this issue. We have a Career and Technical education conference in two weeks in which I'll be presenting the new state require competencies to other instructors so I'll have their ear for a good part of the day and you can believe this topic will be discussed. I'll keep you posted with any developments.

JTMcC
I understand your opinion toward community college training because it was accurate for our school until we decided to "crap or get off the pot".
We recognized 4 years ago that we were providing little to no educational service to our community with the old courses. We have since merged with a public vocational institution to form a joint vocational educational partnership. Between the two school entities we built an AWS S.E.N.S.E school facility using the NCCER curriculum to give our high schoolers and college students a real opportunity at quality welding training. Local industry supports this upgrade in our training by donating materials, equipment and providing internship opportunities which subsequently turn into employment for our students. I wanted you to know that not all community college welding courses are limited to the hobby welders. We teach plate, pipe, cs,ss,alum, low alloys all common welding and cutting processes and theory to provide the industry with trained and certified entry level workers. Additionally we update certs and upgrade skills for the journeymen welders in our area. Our program has increased in numbers by 75% each year since we've adapted this new program. I can see that CC's will either need to follow suit or eventually go the way of the dinosaur!
Curt Casey
Welding Instructor
Northland Pioneer College

By JTMcC

Date 07-07-2003 21:12

You conveniently left out the part of my post about local manufacturing plants which appears to cover your comments.
Again, if you hold qualifications, of any type, and decide to go into a field, such as teaching, you can't reasonably expect that sector to modify the pay because you think you deserve more.
Everyone for the most part chooses where they want to ply their trade, knowing full well the monetary compensation. To enter a field with that knowledge, then to try to change "the system" will be an exercise in futility, much larger forces than yourself control the amount of pay for a given position.
The education system in the U.S. is lacking a bit in the fundamentals of the free market and how it controls the price of products, and compensation for jobs.
regards,
JTMcC.

By cccasey (**)

Date 07-08-2003 01:55

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the " academic establishment" to apply professional certifications and additional trade training toward upgrades in teachers pay levels. They already do that with the academic degrees. If teachers continue their education then typically they are compensated monetarily at the next raise cycle. I see no difference in vocational continued education/training.
Also, I don't subscribe to the notion that it's an exercise in futility to try to change the system. Without the attitude of continuous improvement we would still be riding around in horse and buggy or working for employees at sweat-house wages. When enough people talk about a common concern to establish like ideals then action can be taken to effect the change that is necessary. That's the great thing about a medium such as this to find like minds who can unite and effect change.
cc

By JTMcC

Date 07-09-2003 01:39

You are applying my use of the term "the system" to progress from horse and buggy to cars and jet aircraft. That is distorting my comment. I used, and you are probably aware of this, the term "the system" in relation to your effort to modify the monetary compensation of a particular job. That is controlled by forces you and I have little control over. Let's stick to the topic, you certainly don't have to agree with me, but at least let's have an honest discussion without taking my remarks so far afield. Absolutely no offense intended in anything I say by the way. I wish you luck in your efforts to increase your pay in accordance with your credentials. But the market forces hold sway and will probably continue to do so.
I see you're in Holbrook? What industry support do you recieve? I would guess the powerhouses and maybe the tribe or Peabody coal? I'm in the Kingman area. I've worked outages at Joe City a few times, but not the 4 corners area powerhouses. In the education establishment, you are a poor hillbilly cousin to the math and science crowd, that makes your quest even harder. Vocational education is really taking a back seat these days.

Regards,
JTMcC.