electrode cosumption

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 07-12-2003 10:03

If you are talking about Deposition rate then, you need to be more specific. Why do I say this? There are certain variables necessary in order to accurately calculate deposition rates depending on what welding process is being used. Also, if the process being used is manual, semi-automatic, mechanized, robotic, etc.
The material and it's dimensions are also necessary in order to determine deposition rates. Diameter or dimension of filler material, how much energy is used, travel speed, etc. All of these variables, and sometimes other variables have to be considered in order to establish a formula in order to accurately calculate deposition rates. Even so, the deposition rate will only be as precise as the type, and amount of variables included in the formula.
As for references go, there are electrode manufacturer tables which give you "average" deposition rates

However, if you're talking about electrode consumption as it relates to "non-consumable" electrodes used in processes such as: GTAW, PAW, PAC or even resistance welding electrodes then, you are asking something different than "Electrode Consumption".
If you are asking how you can calculate what I just described then, many more variables have to be added to a formula in order to calculate roughly, the amount of electrode deterioration, contamination, and consumption! Precision is also elusive in this calculation without all of the variables included, and in order to have consistency in both calculations, one has to consider different fluctuations in the variables,
eg. enrgy input fluctuations, shielding/plasma gas fluctuations etc.
Only then can one produce a formula that can actually attempt to calculate "average electrode consumption".

I hope you can understand now that nobody here can give you a good answer to both of your questions without having any specifics about your application, process, energy input (joules or newtons), and other variables such as: thckness of material , filler metal type, thickness or diameter, joint design, dimensions, travel speed, etc.

Everybody that frequents this forum would be happy to help out in answering your question sir. Please do not misunderstand me when I mentioned that nobody here can give you a good answer to your questions.

If you would be so kind as to provide as much specific information as possible, then I'm sure we can help so, I look foward to reading more from you sir!

Respectfully,

SSBN 727 Run Silent. Run Deep!!!

By alisharif (*)

Date 07-15-2003 05:39

Dear sir
Thanks for your answer and my consider is calculation of weight of electrode cosumption for manual SMAW .you suppose that bellow information.
electrode diameter 3.25 mm
single V-joint with bevel angle 37.5 degree
electrode type E-7018
pipe thickness is 10 mm

I saw many factors in AWS for electrode consumption.
you suppose that we want do a construction project and we want calculate weight of electrode consumption for buying.

best regards
A. A .sharif

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 07-15-2003 10:58

There are some free programs available that will calculate the amount of weld metal per foot on my site at

http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com/excel_weld_cost_calc.htm which is a Microsoft Excel Spreadsheet.

There is also a standalone program at http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com/weldassist_version_2.htm .

Hope this helps.

Gerald Austin

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 07-18-2003 21:10

Now that I understand a little more as to what you were referring to, then I'll just add a couple of other questions...

As far as reference material goes, Do you have access to: "The Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding" or "Principles of Industrial Welding" by Lincoln Electric? How about AWS Welding Handbook?

Did you write a WPS for this job yet? (Welding Procedure Specification)

What size diameter(OD) is the pipe? (This is necessary in order to calculate total linear length etc.)

Did you try any of pipewelder_1999's computer applications for calculating weight of electrodes needed for the construction project?

This question is to both you and pipewelder: do these computer applications also consider deposition efficiencies for the electrodes(E-7018 ?dia.)?

The above factor is of relative importance when calculating electrode consumption of SMAW electrodes as is the percentage of out of position joints, total linear length of weld(length of joint X the number of passes per joint X the total number of joints), bending of the electrodes, polarity(DCRP or AC), OCV, current(amps), WPS, technique, time given to complete the job, amount of welders on site which will enable you to calculate average daily electrode consumption, etc. In other words, you might want to qualify your WPS to get a better estimate before you place an order!

My general rule of thumb is: after I calculate the amount of lbs.(#'s),
I then add more #'s to my "estimate" before ordering by a factor of 10% or more just to be on the safe side. Besides, even if you find yourself with more electrodes than were needed to complete the job, you can always use the remainder on another job so long as the electrodes are well cared for. What I mean by this is: Do'nt open as many boxes of electrodes in order to keep the electrode oven full. Especially towards the end of the job. Remember, E-7018 electrodes that have been exposed to the moisture in the air need to be stored in electrode ovens, and can only be used from the oven for a certain amount of time before some of the flux starts to "flake" off. Most electrode Manufacturers can give you guidlines to follow with respect to the amount of time electrodes can be kept in the oven, suggested oven temperature, and after being exposed to the atmosphere to be reused.

Finally, I only do this if the site is remote enough which would require too much time to depend on delivery of additional "matching" electrodes from the closest supplier available. If this factor is'nt important, then if your estimate is short, you can always get more from your supplier as the job moves foward. By then you should have a better "picture" as to the amount of "actual" electrode consumption on the job based on what already has been proven by your welders.

Just a thought because, I have'nt yet checked out the applications from pipewelder_1999's website. I'm almost positive that they are well made but, like our former president Ronald Reagan used to say: "Trust but also, verify!".

I look foward to your reply.

Respectfully,

SSBN727 Run Silent... Run Deep!!!

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 07-18-2003 21:28

Mine doesn't have that preprogrammed yet. I have requested copyright approval from ESAb to refer to and use the data contained in their "Welding Filler metal data book" but I haven't heard anything from them or Lincoln.

The deposition efficiencies are variables that are entered as a variable on one of the forms in my program. This varies GREATLY with stub length.

The method on the spreadsheet by Mark Mruczek is much neater and in my opnion it is a much better tool for that purpose. The program I have is nice if you don't have Excel.

I'm a better welder than I am a programmer and I ain't all that slick so don't expect much.

G Austin

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 07-18-2003 21:34

Gerald,
Yours does all that I've needed to calculate volume, etc... Mark sent me a sample of his and it does work well also. Thanks for giving people like myself access to that info on your site.
John Wright

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 07-18-2003 22:11

I hope to make a better version with the ability to lookup depostion rates based on manufacturers data that is already available. And also put the application online.

There is a new page at http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com/FillerMetalLookupByType.asp that looksup some basic filler metal info and I hope to include the deposition data with detailed AWS Classification Numbers.

C-Spec has a pretty good site at http://fnumbers.com/ but I don't think they have any deposition info YET.

Well,

Have a good one

G Austin

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 07-18-2003 22:42

To Gerald Austin

Awhile back I did check out your website and was most impressed with what you had to offer! I still have'nt checked out the software yet but I have to say that you are a better programmer than myself if that's worth anything to you. Humility is one of the hardest virtues to maintain, and I admire you for that!

Again, I thank you for your contributions and look foward to your updates.

Respectfully,

SSBN727 Run Silent... Run Deep!!!

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 07-18-2003 23:05

Thanks for the positive comments. Both welding and computers are something I love so its great to get the chance to combine them.

Thank you

Gerald Austin