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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / D1.1 Down hill welding
- - By obowhunter2 Date 12-09-2019 17:28
If I could get some information on this it would be great. So the company I just started working for uses a 3G down hill grove test without backing. From looking over their welding standards for the company it states. By passing the 3G downhill test which consist of a root and face bend,  it qualifies them to weld in the F ,H, and V positions. Is there anywhere in D1.1 that shows what positions are qualified for taking a 3G down hill test. These are non-tubuler welds they are making.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-10-2019 05:26
The WPS would have to be qualified per Clause 4. The table regarding positions the WPS would be qualified indicates what positions the WPS for be qualified for.

The welder would have to take the qualification test, and that table regarding welder performance testing would indicate the positions for which the welder can weld in.

The table for the position the WPS is qualified for may not jive with the table for the positions the welder is qualified to weld. So, if the WPS isn't qualified to weld in positions other than vertical, downhill positions, the welder can't weld in those positions the procedure don't permit. In short, both the WPS and the welder performance record have to be in agreement.

Al
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 12-10-2019 20:17
Good Day Bowhunter,

WELDCOME TO THE ORIGINAL AWS WELDING FORUM!!  THE GREATEST WELDING FORUM IN THE WORLD...BAR NONE!!

To get to a complete answer, some aspects of this would also need to know what process you are using and what electrodes?  The employer is free to administer any type of welding test they want.  It just may not meet the applicable code so that they can say their welders are AWS D1.1 qualified.  And, for shop/company policy and normal day in/day out procedures that may work just fine for them.

And, by "without backing", are they backgouging and welding from both sides?  If so, how do you have a root and a face weld? 

But, if a customer wants, and contracts a job requiring D1.1 qualified welders, the test they are administering will not pass the grade. 

Because of the nature of this question, you will need to compare both Clause 3 and Clause 4 though Clause 4 is the main application for welding performance qualification. 

Clause 4.2.2 tells you what welders must do to be qualified.  It sends you to Part C of Clause 4.  Welders test to a WPS.  If using a pre-qualified WPS from Clause 3, it MUST be uphill.  If not pre-qualified, do they have a PQR that shows a WPS was approved by testing per Clause 4?  That is the main question to begin with. 

If not, there is no valid test.  If so, that still does not take the place of testing per Clause 4 Part C.  Once the welder is D1.1 qualified, then they can test to the optional test using the WPS from the PQR to prove their ability to weld vertical downward progression. 

Per the tables in Clause 4 you will find the positions they are qualified to once they pass the designated test.  To get all three they would take a Vertical UPWARD progression test. 

Testing to prove ability in Downward progression only qualifies for that position. 

I am probably confusing this at this point so will stop until more is known.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By obowhunter2 Date 12-11-2019 18:33
Both of you explained it well thanks

Orlando
Parent - - By LToca85 (**) Date 12-11-2019 18:48
Lets say they do have a WPS qualified via clause 4 for downhill welding, wouldn't their test still be invalid due to them testing without backing? I thought we could only test welders using figures 4.16, 4.19, 4.20 or 4.21?
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 12-12-2019 02:11
Not if that is how the PQR was performed and they have proof their procedure works.
Parent - By LToca85 (**) Date 12-12-2019 13:38
But if new welders are employed and aren't qualified via 4.15.3 then is the test the OP mentions valid?
Parent - - By jorjo Date 12-19-2019 12:31
[deleted]
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-19-2019 13:32 Edited 12-19-2019 13:39
The welder performance tests depicted in the structural welding code are the minimum tests required to qualify welders. Once those tests (as applicable to the production requirements) have been passed, the employer can impose any additional tests they deem necessary to ensure the welders have the necessary skills to perform the production welds required and meet any quality standards imposed by the employer or their customers.

The additional test that are beyond the limitations of a prequalified WPS, such as downhill progression, must follow a qualified WPS and will most likely only qualify the welder for limited conditions. If the welder passes a test in the vertical position using downhill progression, he will only be qualified for downhill progression.

On the other hand a performance test that imposes limited access may be the same as a standard test except the employer may limit the access to the joint. The extent of the qualification would be no different than that of a standard test, it simply ensure the welder has the skills needed to weld where the access is limited. Perhaps the employer requires the welder to use a mirror to ensure the welder has the skills needed. Still, the range of qualification would not change if a standard test was administered and the only difference was the need to use a mirror.

Al
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / D1.1 Down hill welding

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