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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Welding of Access Holes (Rat Holes) on Plate Girders.
- - By ilkinhasanov (*) Date 02-12-2020 07:20
Hi Gents,
We are fabricating Platform as per AWS D 1.1 and Company Specification.
Question is "welding of access holes"
As per Company Specification "all access holes to be filled/closed to prevent any corrosion".
Thicker part  of Plate girders' web is 40 mm and radius of hole is 25 mm.

I have some doubt about joint configuration and WPS:

1. Need to be consider this joint as a CJP or PJP ?
2. Can i use Butt weld WPS for fillingt or  WPS for Buttering can be used?
3. or it is a seal weld and what kind of WPS i can use for it (Butt weld WPS or need to run new PQR - and then what will joint configuration ????
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 02-12-2020 09:46
Are you talking about weld access holes as in D1.1 5.16? 
Is D1.8 a consideration?
Without a picture, illustration, sketch it is difficult to know exactly what you are talking about to answer the question about if it is a PJP or CJP? 
Is this in a continuity plate or the girder beam itself?
Why are you running PQR?  Material not to Clause 3?  Some other factor that removes WPS from Clause 3?
Seal weld?  Galv Assoc does not recommend these anymore.  Has reports out on the negative aspects.

TOO MANY QUESTIONS.  Need more information.

Have a  Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By SWN1158 (***) Date 02-12-2020 10:56
With regard to filling access holes, they should not be filled with weld metal, because doing so could initiate the very same cracking problems the weld access hole was used to prevent. If the hole is to be filled for appearance reasons in architecturally exposed structural steel (AESS), it's possible to use a body filler such as bondo, or something of that nature.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-12-2020 11:51 Edited 02-12-2020 21:37
^^this^^

Edit: I was speaking to the use of bondo or autobody filler to plug  the rat holes for AESS or sealing purposes vs using weld metal to fill the rat hole(aka Weld Access Hole).
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 02-12-2020 20:03
My hesitation in just coming out and saying this Scott, is that it was not called a "weld access hole", only, an 'access hole'. 

But that is the direction I was heading by asking the questions that I did.  More information is needed about what is actually going on.

To the OP, also, if this is weld access holes per D1.1 and/or D1.8, there are better ways to consider for 'sealing' than filling them which would make you weld in the k-area which is exactly why the weld access holes exist in the first place, TO KEEP YOU OUT OF THE K-AREA. 

You can wrap these 'corners' without actually 'filling' the weld access hole. 

On the other hand, if we are only talking about standard D1.1 corner clips for the radius of the W-shape member (which IS NOT the k-area by the way and there will soon be an article in IT about this) then while you CAN weld that area, it is not wise to do so.  Better to make a larger corner clip and wrap around without getting into the radius or even the k-area. 

Just a couple of thoughts while awaiting more info.

Have a Great Day,  Brent.
Parent - By SWN1158 (***) Date 02-12-2020 21:27
Brent,

The initial post said....

"Question is "welding of access holes"

which prompted my response.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-12-2020 21:05
Sort of Hijacking here

But Brent: Seal weld?  Galv Assoc does not recommend these anymore.  Has reports out on the negative aspects

This is news to me and I stay pretty up to date with AGA

Can you point me to something they have published that actually discourages seal welding on structural steel ?

We can do a separate thread if you like
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-12-2020 21:34
Following Lawrence on this....AGA has recommendations about seal welding

From the AGA website:
Seal welding
Complete seal-welding can be used so the cleaning solutions cannot penetrate the overlap surfaces. When a weld joint is completely sealed, there must be no weld imperfection or pinholes. The penetration of moisture into the sealed cavity could cause significant safety hazards during the hot-dip galvanizing process as the sealed air will greatly expand when the part reaches the galvanizing temperature. This gas expansion can cause the molten zinc to splash out of the bath and endanger galvanizing workers. If the area of a seal-weld overlap is large, there should be vent holes through one or both sides into the lapped area. This is to prevent any moisture that gets in through a pinhole in the weld from building up excessive pressure while in the galvanizing bath. This venting becomes more important the greater the area. Consult your galvanizer or the AGA publication Recommended Details for Galvanized Structures for vent size and quantity. Vent holes can be sealed after galvanizing.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 02-12-2020 23:09
Gentlemen,

I have a copy of this in my records somewhere.  I will pull out my thumb drives and see what I can find and if I can document where I found it.

Note though, one aspect of it is that the size of most 'seal welds' is so small/thin compared to base material and other welds that expansion and contraction rates have been shown to be so different between those that the potential for cracking is extreme.  And that multiplies even more if the tiny seal weld is then ground to make it really smooth. 

I will look for it but am pretty busy the next few days.  You might have to remind me.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-13-2020 12:30
Thanks Brent !

I sent you and John copies of the AGA publications I have on the subject.  (they are old)  and a white paper by Dr. Miller on the same.

John.. I sent to your AOL account...  I didn't know AOL was a thing anymore :)
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-13-2020 13:27
AOL=old   ...Ha
Well, Brent has already called me out as being old when I referred to Group 4 and 5 materials in another thread.
You can also reach me at jwright@handp.com I keep the AOL thing for most online stuff to keep the spam in my personal account rather than my company one.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Welding of Access Holes (Rat Holes) on Plate Girders.

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