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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Fillet weld length
- - By Somkiat Date 04-28-2020 07:56
The drawing call out 5/16" fillet weld both side. but actually at both end of fillet weld have a little bit area around 1/8"-1/4" miss weld (same as "hold back"). Is this acceptable as per AWS D1.1? please advise for the reference clause.

our client said that need to be full length and need to be repair.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 04-28-2020 13:30
Were hold backs specified? What was the weld length specified? What is the application? Does the drawing address the need for or the option permitting hold backs?

Al
Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 05-02-2020 23:18
Table 6.1 allows a 5/16 fillet weld to be undersized, for a maximum of 1/8, provided the undersized portion of the weld doesn't exceed 10% of the weld length. Another consideration is web to flange welds on girders, where undersized fillet welds are prohibited at the ends, for a length equal to twice the flange width. 

Also, worth mentioning is what the AISC has to say...  "Fillet weld terminations should be detailed in a manner that does not result in a notch in the base metal transverse to applied tension loads that can occur as a result of normal fabrication. An accepted practice to avoid notches in base metal is to stop fillet welds short of the edge of the base metal by a length approximately equal to the size of the weld. In most welds, the effect of stopping short can be neglected in strength calculations. There are two common details where welds are terminated short of the end of the joint to permit relative deformation between the connected parts:

Welds on the outstanding legs of beam clip-angle connections are returned on the top of the outstanding leg and stopped no more than 4 times the weld size and not greater than half the leg width from the outer toe of the angle.

Fillet welds connecting transverse stiffeners to webs of girders that are 3/4" thick or less are stopped 4 to 6 times the web thickness from the web toe of the flange-to web fillet weld, except where the end of the stiffener is welded to the flange. Details of fillet weld terminations may be shown on shop standard details."
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-03-2020 01:23
Where in the post does it imply that is an application involving structural steel framing? The welds involved may be short where the "hold backs" involved represent a significant percentage of the total weld length.

Without additional information, it is difficult to provide much of a response. To say it another way, there's too much reliance on conjecture, inference, and reliance on details we simply don't have at our disposal.

Al
Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 05-03-2020 01:29
The implication was in a question in the original post...  "Is this acceptable as per AWS D1.1? please advise for the reference clause."
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-03-2020 17:40
There are a number of applications where the client may specify D1.1 for other than structural steel framing. What if the application involves a 1/2 x 1/2 bar welded to a plate?

Without knowing the details of the application and the actual size of the material being welded, it a real leap of faith to make any assumptions.

Just saying.

Al
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 05-04-2020 01:32
I was going to say something much like Scott did.

But if by “holdback” the OP means an unwelded length at the termination, than the “undersized” clause in table 6.1 really doesn’t apply.

If the call-out is full length, than a determination needs to be made about welds that aren’t full length. 

If not the specified length, typically additional weld is required eh?
Parent - - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 05-05-2020 12:21 Edited 05-05-2020 19:01
I think everyone is missing the universal clause that governs most Codes. That is the CHLW clause. This clause has caused consternation to contractors and fab shops since the beginning of time. This clause has driven every welding engineer and QC person deep into the code to find ways around it, mostly to no avail. This clause has been responsible for more arguments and ultimately termination of Quality folks than any other.  The clause? The clause you ask, what is this clause? Client Has Last Word.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-05-2020 13:45
Amen.

Al
Parent - - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 05-06-2020 09:52
The customer is always right.
MG.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-07-2020 15:53
They may not be right, but they're never wrong.

Al
Parent - - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 05-07-2020 20:15
At least that's what they think.

MG
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 05-11-2020 01:54 Edited 05-11-2020 02:12
Unless the holdbacks are declared on the contract drawings they are discrepant per AWS d1.1 2015.  In other words if they do not meet the length declared on the contract drawings they are WRONG. 

I have recently engaged with a QM on this exact subject and he quotes the "design" section of d1.1.   2.3.4  clearly states that holdbacks shall be indicated on the contract documents

SO if it does not match the drawings in front of you ....it is basically ****.

HOLDBACKS on fabrication is an EOR issue....The EOR may declare in writing of  X per x weld deposit and that may overrule a shop drawing....I would definitely ask for that declaration in writing before I let it just go loosy goosy in a shop.

Just my personal opinion guy....
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Fillet weld length

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