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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / My first question(s)
- - By CHEVYTOWN13 (**) Date 07-19-2003 18:18
Like some here, I have turned to welding to hopefully make a livelyhood out of it in the world of art. I have been making these small chairs (13" tall) for many years and am ready to make them lifesize.

I will be fabricating the chairs made out of manderal bent tubing with an OD no larger than 2 1/2" that will resemble the prototypes made out of the tomato wire. I bought a mig welder and understanding it is for stainless steel, aluminum, steel. Those materials are what I want to build these chairs out of. But I understand from reading a TON lately that there are MANY different types of aluminum, and steels...the same with fillers.

For starters, what kind of steel would be good to use for these projects? I'm thinking like exhaust tubing(I'd like to do my own exhaust one day too, can't wait for that). I want to start off with steel, becuase I have read aluminum is very difficult to do. Once I get the nack, then I'll be ready for aluminum. I haven't researched stainless steel yet, but I'm sure that's just as tough.

The only problem I see is that there are such crazy bends for these chairs that I will have to build these chairs with many welds. I assume that grinding is the only way to get it as smooth as possible. I'm looking for a fine finish. I know it will be difficult because I am new at welding, so I definitely sense troubles ahead and by no means am I saying I can make it look seamless(sp) or even close to that. I'll have to decide how to finish them once I know what I'm doing.

I'll be looking for a school soon, but I wanted to get a head start so I have a good feel when I walk past them doors.

Muchas gracias.

Ricardo
Parent - - By flatjwl (*) Date 07-20-2003 02:43
For joints which require minimal cleanup, grinding, etc. you might be ahead to plan to use the GTAW process for your work. This would also work well when you advance to aluminum and stainless materials. There are several problems involved when trying to feed aluminum wire thru a standard mig gun and cable which you can avoid, plus the GTAW deposits can be made to look so good it would be a shame to touch a grinder to them.
Parent - - By CHEVYTOWN13 (**) Date 07-20-2003 07:41
Thank you.

Flats, Luckily I haven't opened the box! I bought a Lincoln "pro-mig" 135 the other day. I just had to get something that day. I scimmed the TIG process you mentioned and I had the idea, beforehand, that it was the most difficult to work with.

Bill, 2 1/2" is the largest I want to go, but haven't really thought about anything smaller than 2". Some of them are not for sitting purposes, just ornamental. With the crazy bends, it will be tough to sit on...LOL...Muchas Gracias for the tips for bulk.

This Lincoln cost just under 500 bills. I really can't afford a more expensive one right now. Is it worth keeping? (I'd like to do some patch panel work on the truck) I'm going to go check pricing on TIG welders and see if there is one on the market that is within my range.

RM

Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 07-20-2003 14:58
Hi RM,
Your new MIG welder will work fine for you to start with.
The GTAW process is neater and can make more perfectly sized welds, but it is more difficult to master and expensive to purchase all the necessary equipment.
It will take you a little while to master the mig, but it's very forgiving and the simplest process to work with.
Anyway, once you master the mig, you'll be able to place welds that require little or no grinding to clean up. The best way to learn how to weld neatly is to have to grind your own welds because grinding gets to be a pain in the butt after a while.
A couple of products are available to make cleanup even easier. First there is a gel called nozzle dip which coats the contact tip and nozzle in order to prevent splatter build up. This is important to both extend the life of your tip and nozzle and to keep the shielding gas flowing properly. Second, there is a spray solution called anti-spatter that you spay on the metal your welding in order to prevent the spatter from sticking to you work. Spatter is little drops of weld metal that splash out of the bead while you're welding and make a mess that can be difficult to remove.
A few other things to remember that will help you make good welds are:

Proper stickout, meaning the distance the welding wire sticks out of the nozzle. Keep this distance about 1/2". If it's too short, you'll burn up the contact tip and won't be able to see what you're doing. If it's too long, you'll get a lot of spatter and the shielding gas won't cover properly which will result in a weld full of porosity (bubbles).

Good shedding gas flow, meaning about 30-35 cfh. This helps prevent porosity.

Clean metal, meaning don't try to weld over paint, rust, zinc or other contaminates which prevent the weld from fusing properly with the base metal and cause porosity.

Stay out of the wind, meaning if you're welding outside or have a fan blowing, it will displace the shielding gas and cause porosity. If this is not possible, turn up the shielding gas cfh and make a wind block to protect the welding area.

There are a lot of other things to consider that would take forever to mention here. I suggest that you complete the welding class that you mentioned and study hard. One thing that I know for a fact is that the more you learn about welding, the more you realize that you have to learn.

As far as types of metal are concerned,
For carbon steel, regular old A36 (plate and shapes), A53 grade B (pipe), and A500 grade b (tubing) will work fine, Try to stay away from 4140 or chrome moly as it is specialty metal that requires stress relieving or it will crack. Also, beware of trying to weld cast iron, as it is difficult to weld without cracking. There are a lot of posts about welding cast on this forum that you can find by using the search function.
For stainless, use the grade 304, just because it will work and is cheaper than the other grades. MIG welding stainless with solid wire is a little tricky. It doesn't like to flow very well. Flux Core wire works better. Also, you don't want to work with stainless on a carbon steel worktable and you have to use different grinding wheels and stainless brushes that have never touched carbon steel. Otherwise, your stainless will rust.
For aluminum, I don't recommend that use it unless you get a spool gun and a more powerful welding machine.

Good luck, have fun and welcome to the forum!
Tim
Parent - By CHEVYTOWN13 (**) Date 07-20-2003 20:47
Tim.

Much appreciative for your knowledge. It's time to open the box and apply at a school.

RM
Parent - By billvanderhoof (****) Date 07-20-2003 04:51
Exhaust tubing is generally zinc or aluminum plated- not something a new welder wants to deal with. Also stay away from electrical conduit (same reason). Black pipe is easy to work with although a chair made from 2" black pipe would be kind of heavy. You can get it at the Home Depot though. Structural pipe is available with fairly thin wall for reasonable weight but you will probably not need large enough amounts to get most steel yards to deliver. You might be able to pick it up at the yard or if not perhaps a local fabricator will add what you need to his order. 3/4" pipe is plenty strong for a chair although perhaps not what your artistic view requires. All of these will require painting or plating after assembly to prevent rust.
Bill
Parent - - By kam (**) Date 07-21-2003 04:30
Where are you located? If you are in my area I might be able to get you a deal on some of our scrap tubing. I work for an exhaust manufacture an we sell alot of our scrap to locals at a fair price. Tubing only. Has some defects but might suit your needs. Several farms buy it to make fencing, gates ect.
Parent - - By CHEVYTOWN13 (**) Date 07-21-2003 22:06
I live in Los Angeles in an area know as Atwater Village. Originally from East Los Angeles.

I'm getting some good tips right here. This place is cool. And you peoples are alright...

RM
Parent - - By kam (**) Date 07-22-2003 03:48
Ahhh. Midwest here. Was worth a try. If you run in to problems when you start welding it just give us another post. I have been welding SS tubing for awhile. Really not that hard just takes some practice. I usually teach a few people a week because of turnover. Good luck.

kam
Parent - By CHEVYTOWN13 (**) Date 07-22-2003 16:02
It's always worth a shot hometown!

I have been doing quite a bit of research and from what I see here on this little movie:

www.weldreality.com/MIG_flux_core_data.htm

It seems like you weld with droplets? I understand the gas is shielding. I see droplets coming from the welding gun. I would assume it does not look like this under a helmet and they must have done something to it to get it on the net. I would guess it is a more slower but steady stream as you move the gun...

I finally have the time off work to put in the video that came with the box. I'm thinking if I feel comfortable enough after, I'll use the fluxcore and give it a shot.

I have some 16g metal left over from a custom gauge panel I did for my truck.

www.fungusworks.com/TheShow/html/customgauges.html

Damn, am I excited like I haven't been in a looooooong time!

Muchas Gracias RM

Parent - By thepowerofblue (**) Date 07-21-2003 23:03
If you really dont want to waste your time with argon for mig welding and if you want to do it even faster stay with flux cored welding and you will find it easier.Flux Core is one of the easiest proccesses of welding.I learned to use a Mig/Flux Core welder withing half an hour of watching somebody else.Here are some helpful hints:Make sure the work is cleaned properly and grounded right.Then when you strike the arc keep the nozzle about 3/8 from the work so you make a neat weld and take your time depending how the thickness of the metal will be and even a better hint when welding keep the gun at an angle so you can see the puddle because if you dont then the gun will be blocking the puddle and you wont see what you are doing. :)
John
Parent - By thepowerofblue (**) Date 07-21-2003 23:06
by the way what are you going to do with the chairs anyways?....because if you are real fat and big and if the weld did not penetrate the steel you could fall on your ass and hurt yourself! haha
Parent - - By 49DegreesNorth (**) Date 07-24-2003 00:19

Hey, Ricardo,

Couldn't find any pix. of them chairs on Fungusworks... am I looking in the right place?

Welcome to welding!

Chris
Parent - - By CHEVYTOWN13 (**) Date 07-24-2003 00:36
Actually hometown, many of those pictures (non drawings) have some of those chairs I have built. I just panned some to make the images "non-objective." The viewers are not sure what they are looking at.

I'll take a picture of one and try to post it as soon as I can, Chris.

Gracias for the welcome.

RM

Parent - - By 49DegreesNorth (**) Date 07-24-2003 01:48

You considered making those chairs out of silicon bronze? The stuff welds up like steel and gets a real nice patina instead of rusting.

Parent - By CHEVYTOWN13 (**) Date 07-24-2003 03:49
Now that sounds like a cool avenue to take sometime.

I'll do some homework and check what kind of silicon bronze is out there. I'm mainly going to be working with tubing.

This place rocks with solid information!

RM
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 07-24-2003 07:45
Hola caballero!!!
Welcome to the forum RM!

You sound like you're creatively inspired!
It is truly refreshing to read the amount of enthusiasm you portray in your posts and I only hope that you never lose that sort of creative energy!!!

The video you purchased is an excellent source of reference with regards to "MIG/MAG"(Metal Inert Gas/Metal Active Gas) welding and flux cored arc welding!!! You will also find that the person(Ed Craig) that produced the video also has an excellent website regarding these processes, and you can also ask questions through the site, in case you did'nt know...

If I can be of some guidance, feel free to "HOLLAR"!!!

Make the most of it homie!!!

Respectfully.

SSBN727 Run Silent... Run Deep!!!
Parent - By CHEVYTOWN13 (**) Date 07-24-2003 21:19
¡Horale Compa!

Sup brotha...

I'm full of energy right now to the one billionth degree SS!

I just went out to buy a better shielding helmet. The one that came with the Lincoln kit is the handle kind. Don't want to waist time holding a shield. Besides, it doesn't make me feel like a welder LOL!

Well, here am paying for this helmet and the homeboy was cool. He started talking to me about what I was doing and all of a sudden, the hometown takes me to their welding room and lets me give it a shot. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Damn, what a RUSH! I don't think I've typed this fast befo in me life!

Now I understand what it looks/feels like. I'm still energized to the max. But still have some questions about set-up so I'm gone reading bro.

Thank you for the "knod" into the forum and the help. I'm sure soon there will be a sunami of questions from me...

RM
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / My first question(s)

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