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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / .045 Metal core vs solid wire for thin sheet steel
- - By zanic07 Date 03-03-2021 13:42
I am constantly working with varying thickness of steel in my MIG robots and am looking for a standard wire size to use so we can minim changeover time. We are currently using .035 er70s-6 wire for everything from 2mm sheet to 1/2" plate but we are interested in increasing the wire size to .045 for some of our thicker weldments.

Does anyone have any experience laying a 2mm bead with .045 either solid or metal core wire?
Is metal core or solid core more effective at welding thin sheet metal?

Weld distortion is a problem at my company so please take that into consideration on the thinner stuff.

we typically weld A36 or some other group 1 or 2 steel.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 03-03-2021 14:52
That's a great question... And also a big question.

Very small fillets.

MCAW can be and advantage with automated GMAW when fit-up may have slight inconsistency.   If fitup is going to be perfect and you have the process control to keep it that way forever, than solid wire might be possible.

.045 can make some beautiful fillets with GMAWP when the correct waveform and weld gas are used, very small and very fast,,, with both MCAW and solid wire.  But much here depends on the waveform and very exacting parameter control and fit-up...

Exact parameters and set-up is beyond what I can do here on the forum... But I know someone who is the best in the world at this kind of thing and has been for the last 40+ years.

Em Craig is a consultant who is an expert at automated GMAW and weld gasses.   Drop an email here with your question and I bet you get a fun and helpful dialogue.  weldreality@gmail.com
Parent - - By zanic07 Date 03-03-2021 15:17
Thank you I will definitely reach out to him.
Parent - By TimGary (****) Date 03-04-2021 13:11
A few years ago, Heath Suraba with Lincoln Electric's Automation Lab helped me refine some robotic GMAW-Pulse PQR's using ER70S-3 in .045" and .052" diameters. Our main material goal was 10 gage P&O steel sheet, but we also included 16 gage. Joints were T-Joint fillet, Flare Bevel and Square CJP without backing. The goal was to determine which pulse waveform was the best to provide reliable weld size and quality at max travel speed for each material thickness and joint configuration. To provide some consideration for fit-up issues, we used a filler wire diameter width root gap in each joint.
We wound up qualifying 3mm fillets on 16 gage with .052 solid wire (90/10 gas) at 70 IPM Travel Speed. Every other joint / wire size was a bit less than that, but the average travel speed was around 50 IPM.
Now, that being said, it's a hell of a lot easier to make good welds at max parameters in a lab setting vs on a production line, but the point is the limits of what you can do are more so set by your parts fit-up / configuration and equipment capability, rather than filler metal type. It just takes diligent R&D to figure it out.

Tim
Parent - - By Jarhead1 (**) Date 03-09-2021 16:17
Really 2mm. Were trying to hold .125 fillet on our Miller Robot any help with that would be appreciated. .25-.38 thk A36 nothing fancy here. Currently .035 - .045 er70s-6 wire is our standard when we use try and use .030 wire it balls up like old fishing line. One example is were welding a 1 1/2" dia tube 1/8" wall to a 3/8" thk plate 4.00 x 4.00". The arc start kills us and the overlap at the end being over 1/8" fillet once we get going it's ok.

Thanks and Take Care.
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 03-10-2021 12:21
Tie-Ins are tricky...
Are you fully utilizing all of the start / stop / crater fill functions available?
How much R&D have you done in effort to find the right mix of settings that provides a good result?
Give Dave Almy a call at the Miller R&D lab in Appleton. They can work out a solution there in the lab for you, but probably already have one in their pocket.

Tim
Parent - By Jarhead1 (**) Date 03-10-2021 20:57
Tim,

No we are not utilizing these functions. We had a couple guys go through the training a few yrs ago and one is no longer with us. So we lack on the programming skills, the basics were ok. We did do some trial/error on this part and are pretty close but not yet there.
Thanks for throwing a name out here. I will contact him.

Thanks,
RD
Parent - - By zanic07 Date 03-18-2021 12:35
what robot controller are you using and what miller power supply. Depending on your configuration you may have different options. ABB for instance allows you to adjust the arc start and arc end parameters to help with this issue.
Parent - By Jarhead1 (**) Date 04-28-2021 12:38 Edited 04-28-2021 14:52
Just seen this. Panasonic.

-Thanks
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / .045 Metal core vs solid wire for thin sheet steel

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