American Welding Society Forum
I recently changed positions to a prototype/job shop as their sole weld engineer and CWI. The previous engineers had some weld and welder qualifications in place, but as I dig into them they appear to be messy. I'm used to working with D1.1 and a little D1.2 from my previous position, but have very little with D1.3 and D9.1.
Here's the question:
Two new welders have joined the company and they'll need to take their qualification tests. From the previous engineers there are work instructions and WPS's laid out for an unlimited thickness structural steel V-groove test, and GMAW and GTAW square grooves on 10 ga. and 18 ga. steel.
I see that using 10 and 18 ga. steel allows for any thicknesses under D1.3 according to 184.108.40.206(b) (2018 ed.), but I'm questioning why a square groove is used instead of a fillet as described in Table 6.4 6.2A which would cover more circumstances seen on the shop floor. Is there something I'm missing as to why square grooves are the tests used?
Also, If I intend to generate WPS's to cover every joint type (Table 6.4) with the range of thicknesses in D1.3, will I only need a couple WPS's to allow for min/max parameter ranges, with one PQR for each joint type and min/max thickness tested to back up those WPS's?
Any help or suggestions for qualifying sheet metal welding are appreciated
Look closer at 6.8.2 and Table 6.4.
Performance tests for each joint type to be welded are required.
The square groove allowance in 6.8.2 (3) is for square grooves only.
Good Day CAM,
Sorry I am a bit behind on the original posting here. Hope you are still around checking in on occasion.
As mentioned, the square groove is only for that. D1.3 is no where near as wide ranging as D1.1. While there are a handful of PreApproved joints (which do happen to cover the vast majority of applications to D1.3) the welder qualifications to them do not overlap nearly as much as in D1.1. Grooves do not qualify for fillets. Without my book in front of me, the normal coverage for welders is to test them on fillets of a thickness that covers the range you need and then flare bevel or flare V grooves.
I generally test them, based upon mostly testing welders for construction applications, in the vertical position progression downward. This qualifies them on the flare bevels and V's for studs and other shapes in F, H, and V down. Then I test fillet welds also in the vertical down progression position. There are times when an overhead is also added to make sure someone on the team is all position qualified for those times when it just can't be done any other way.
Now, having said that, D1.3 is a code you really need to get into and/or hire a consultant to help you through the first time around. As in D1.1 and D1.2, there are things that must be watched carefully pertaining to differences between Welder Qualification, WPS development, PQR's, etc. Most PQR's, WPS testing, is easy in D1.3. Just takes a wedge, hammer and a good vice.
Any further questions, just ask away.
Have a Great Day, Brent
Just a few thoughts added to the smart advice by Tim and Brent. Nice to see you on the board Brent!
Don't know how I missed this one myself
I like Table 6.2 10(B) Which states:
For joints other than those in (10}(a), a change in sheet steel
thickness to less than 0.5/ or greater than 2t, where t is the thickness
of the thinner steel qualified.
Lar's Read on the clause. a 16ga (.063) test assembly will qualify for 2T or 1/8"... Anything more can be considered D1.1 structural. or down to 1/2T which is about 0.031.
Most folks are not welding sheet any thinner than 0.031, so a single thickness can qualify for just about everything, so long as you are not talking about spot or seam welds.
Also be mindful of the footnote at the bottom of table 6.1 which demands separate procedure qualification for galvanized and each different coating used in production. Furthermore this qualification requirement extends to performance qualification as well. See 220.127.116.11.
Thanks Lawrence and good catch.
I like to qualify welders using galv studs. This gives a good radius for flare bevel groove welds and using the galv qualifies for both galv and plain whereas using plain will NOT qualify one for galvanized members.
Have a Great Day, Brent
Thank you for the responses,
Can you describe better for me how you use galvanized studs for the welder qualifications?
I can't quite picture what you mean by that statement.
And I do have another question. Upcoming project will include welding some internally threaded inserts set into sheet metal. The issue I have is that the inserts are thicker than what would normally be covered within D1.3.
My train of thought is that Table 1.1 directs me to Annex A or D1.1 (3mm sheet to 7mm insert T-joint). Since it's an automotive application, Using D1.3 while following necessary requirements from Table A.1 make the most sense. This is my first time using Annex A and would like to sure my reasoning behind it is sound.
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