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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / FCAW Weld Test
- - By rdavid1962 (*) Date 02-26-2022 17:38
Hey guys we using D1.1 to quality some welders on plate using FCAW for unlimited thickness. According to Fig. 6.16 (2020) that is the way to go. We are going to test in the 3G and 4G positions on 1 inch plate to achieve unlimited thickness and all positions. But according to Fig.5.1 FCAW can not be welded with that joint design in the horizontal position. I'm missing something, thanks for any help.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 02-28-2022 00:13
Good Day,

You are correct: 1) that joint cannot be used with FCAW in the Horizontal position; 2) that is the test to use for welder qualification; and, 3) you are missing something. 

You are three for three.  Looking good. 

To the issue, Keep Welder Qualification Exams Separate from Production. 

Once the welder is properly qualified to D1.1 standards they are qualified to weld any APPLICABLE PREQUALIFIED joint within the limitations of D1.1.  There are limitations to position and joint design and electrode size, and welding parameters, and many other factors within the Prequalified WPS limitations stated in D1.1.

All of that has nothing to do with the welder being qualified for the work using that particular weld joint in the 3G and 4G positions.  And, if a fabricator HAPPENED to qualify a WPS in the horizontal position using FCAW then they could indeed weld in that position using FCAW.  It just is not prequalified. 

Sure, Prequalified WPS's MUST be written and welded to within all of the applicable limitations of D1.1.  And yes, the welder qualified per that test IS qualified to weld in ALL positions with FCAW.  It all works together perfectly.  You just have to keep certain parts separated from other parts when trying to understand how it all works. 

Hope I cleared that up.  Hopefully others with better communication skills will chime in.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By rdavid1962 (*) Date 03-01-2022 12:47
Thanks Brent, I think I was looking to hard at it.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-28-2022 21:52
Not sure actually what you are asking.

So I'll try to help Brent and toss out some information and hope it sticks.

You are testing your guys with Vert and overhead...  So there is  no need to do horizontal test right?

The Prequalified Joint  (Figure 5.1) that is closest to the test assembly is B-U2a...  Which is not prequalified for horizontal welding with ANY PROCESS.  It's not just Flux Core.    Gravity is mean, and a V-groove like that will have issues ...

So typically for horizontal grooves used in production a WPS is produced with a single bevel.  (See B-U4a) or something similar.

So the moral of the story is this:   If your welders qualify on Vert and Overhead with a V-groove, they are qualified to weld horizontally on a prequalified B-U4a without further testing.
Parent - - By rdavid1962 (*) Date 03-01-2022 12:48
Thanks Lawrence.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-09-2022 15:14 Edited 03-09-2022 15:37
What wrong with using Figure 6.19 for the horizontal position to qualify for the horizontal position? As You, Lawrence and Brent said, the V-groove isn't prequalified for the horizontal position, but there are single bevel grooves that are appropriate for the horizontal position when using FCAW.

Side Bar: I typically use a 15-degree bevel in the bottom member and a 30-degree bevel for the upper member when weld horizontal grooves using FCAW. The issue is the buildup of slag in front of the molten weld pool and the increased potential for incomplete fusion (IF) and slag inclusions (SI) in the corner of the lower member. The slight 15-degree bevel allows the excess slag to "run" out of the joint to mitigate the potential problem. The solution for all practical purposes eliminated the problem of IF and SI on several jobs that had CJP horizontal column splices.

"But it isn't prequalified!" Let's take a look at B-U2 for SMAW, it is prequalified for all positions and there is a note "e" that says any prequalified joint for SMAW can be used with GMAW and FCAW. The groove angle and the root opening used is unchanged.  The prequalified groove details do not list the range for the bevel angles, just the groove angle. So, the horizontal V-groove I mention is considered prequalified and for that matter, so is the prequalified V-groove provided the detail for SMAW is used. Not that I would recommend using a V-groove with symmetrical bevels for the horizontal position.

Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 03-09-2022 16:36
'Like' button doesn't work. 

Good points Al.  Always alternate ways to accomplish the task.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-09-2022 17:57
Thanks Brent.

Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / FCAW Weld Test

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