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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / maximum cap pass width in a single pass
- - By SWN1158 (***) Date 07-06-2022 10:48
I was asked to look at some continuous flare bevel groove welds today. These welds attach a 1" thick lintel plate to a HSS20 x 8 x 1/2.

There was no weld size shown in the weld symbol, so the welds are required to be flush per D1.1

When the welder ran the cap pass, he ended up with a 1 3/16" wide cap, that he made in a single pass, using the GMAW process with .045 wire.

I have been unable to find acceptance criteria for this single cap pass width, mainly due to my lack of patience to look for it.

I have never seen this done until today. The weld looks good, but is it code compliant?
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-06-2022 11:04
Depth to width ratio has to be off with a pass that wide using an electrode that small.
Parent - - By SWN1158 (***) Date 07-06-2022 11:20
Would the Maximum Single Pass Layer Width in Table 5.1 be applicable in this case? That was the closest thing I could find. It references Footnote g,

"... In the vertical position for nontubulars or the horizontal, vertical, and overhead positions for tubulars, split layers when the width, w > 1 in."

If this is correct, it still doesn't indicate a maximum width.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-06-2022 12:08
I was thinking about AWS D.1.1:2015, Clause 3.7.2, and Fig 3.1
Neither the depth nor the max width in the cross section of weld metal deposited in each weld pass SHALL exceed the width at the surface. .....this applies to Prequalified WPSs though. I'm positive that wide of a pass with an 045 electrode is pretty thin vs the width. I'm pretty surprised they were able to keep the puddle fluid enough to make a pass that wide.
Parent - - By SWN1158 (***) Date 07-06-2022 13:53
That was what I was thinking too, but "Neither the depth nor the maximum width in the cross section of weld metal deposited in each weld pass shall exceed the width at the surface of the weld pass (see Figure 3.1) was making me question myself.

So, in looking at Figure 3.1 the cap weld , I slowly and simply read Figure. 3.1 again ... "Weld Bead in which Depth and Width Exceed the Width of the Weld Face (see 3.7.2), and that made it clear. This requires split layers, but what is the maximum width of these split layers? I can't understand it clearly at the bottom of Table 3.6 where (note e) is referenced...

e In the F, H, or OH positions for nontubulars, split layers when the layer width w > 5/8 in [16 mm]. In the vertical position for nontubulars or the flat,
horizontal, vertical, and overhead positions for tubulars, split layers when the width w > 1 in [25 mm].
Parent - - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 07-06-2022 15:16
Does the company you work for or the client have a general welding spec.? If so it could be in there.
Parent - By SWN1158 (***) Date 07-06-2022 15:45
no.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-06-2022 16:10
In your case of a flare bevel....I think Note e is saying to split layers when the width is greater than 1" due to the radius of the corner of the HSS.
Parent - - By SWN1158 (***) Date 07-06-2022 16:42
Is there a limit on the width of each split layer?
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-06-2022 18:09
Tossing a dart and saying that Note e limits the width to 1" before resorting to splitting layers. At some point you will end up falling back to Table 4.5 requiring a new WPS or an additional PQR due to the essential variables being way off from the WPS you currently have. The is no way the travel speed and all of the other parameters are being followed if they can run a pass with a 1.1875" wide weld face.
Parent - - By SWN1158 (***) Date 07-06-2022 18:46
The project manager approved the welds "as is" on the flare bevel groove joint in question. Moving forward, here's what I understand. Please let me know if I'm correct, so that I can get with the shop guys...

The maximum width of the weld bead is dependent on the remaining width after the first (single) pass. While the fill pass thickness is limited to 1/4” for GMAW and FCAW (in all positions) per Table 5.1, Footnote g indicates the criteria for split layers.

My understanding of Footnote g as it applies to a tubular flare bevel groove joint (attaching a lintel plate to an HSS 20 x 8 x 1/2) ... in all four welding positions, split layers are required when the previous bead width exceeds 1".

So, if I have a succeeding bead width, after the initial root pass, that's less that 1"... I can weld it in a single pass? That sounds like a bit much, but that's how I read it.

Does my understanding comply with D1.1, as long as we're in compliance with our WPS criteria?

Thanks :)
Parent - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 07-12-2022 18:26
"The project manager approved the welds "as is" on the flare bevel groove joint in question".
SWN,
just for my own understanding. The production group has say over what is acceptable and what is not? If so, why are you involved?
- By 803056 (*****) Date 07-15-2022 12:55 Edited 07-15-2022 13:00
My take is as follows:

Per Table 5.1
Maximum fill pass layer thickness (I assume that includes the cover layer): 1/4-inch in the flat position using GMAW
Maximum single pass layer width for any layer width w: footnote g: when w greater than 5/8-inch, split layer

5.8.2.1 Width/Depth Pass Limitation. Neither the depth nor the maximum width in the cross section of weld
metal deposited in each weld pass shall exceed the width at the surface of the weld pass (see Figure 5.6). The figure illustrates two unacceptable conditions, (1) the depth of the bead exceeds the width of the weld face, (2) due to "depth of fusion" the width of the weld bead exceeds the with of the weld face at the surface.

The latter is not something I've seen, but my experience is somewhat limited.

I don' see where the face of the flare bevel would violate the conditions of Table 5.1 or clause 5.8.2.1 provided the width of the previous layer was not in excess of 5/8-inch. However, a weave bead of the width (over 1-inch) you describe would cause my eye brow to raise considering 0.045-inch electrode was used. Was the welder in spray mode? You can carry a pretty wide weave in the flat position using spray transfer.

Al
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / maximum cap pass width in a single pass

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