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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / AWS ATF Min. D1.1 Groove Test Length (limited)
- - By kingcohiba Date 02-08-2023 20:07
Hello,

It says in the qualification section of AWS D1.1 that the min. length of a limited groove joint for qualification (or certification I'd suppose) is 7 inches.

Does anyone see an issue with an ATF using 8" long x 3" sections and not counting the first and last half inch?

Curious on the thoughts of the forum on this.

Thanks!
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-09-2023 12:04
The only downside I see would be if it is too wide to fit into the band saw, other than that I can't think of anything else.
Parent - - By kingcohiba Date 02-09-2023 19:12
We thought that we would switch to the 8" from the 7" so that we could evaluate the center 7" (min.) in the event that there are any issues with the starting and end of the joint to give people a bit of a better chance as those areas are typically where we see the most failed tests due to excessive reinforcement and also slight bits of underfill.

I have been unsuccessful in trying to find anything regarding this and thought this may be a good place to post as there are a couple of "skeptics" saying that this is prohibited. While I'm referring to AWS D1.1, in D9.1 they discuss the visual acceptance criteria as being everything except for the first and last half inch.

Would love more input if anyone out there has any. Thanks for the reply!
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-10-2023 22:51
Run off tabs would do the same thing (give the welder a place to start and stop on).
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 02-13-2023 13:13
Min test plate length is 7". Using longer material is OK.
Fig 6.21 shows to cut bend samples 1" off center, so the leftover plate at the ends is inconsequential.
However, there's no getting around the visual acceptance criteria of 6.10.1. This criteria applies to the entire weld, excluding only weld tabs.
Look at it this way - A performance test is a way for a Welder to show that he/she knows how to and is capable of completing code compliant production welds. If a Welder did not complete weld joint ends in a compliant manner on a production weld, would that be acceptable?

Tim
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-13-2023 19:48
I've been thinking about this exact question Tim.  or Scenario

100% of weld length shall receive visual.

However if the test assembly detail should designate an inch (or whatever) length at each end to be a run-tab.   I think that might satisfy.     Everybody knows the designated length at the ends are for run-on and run-off and exempt from visual examination.

It's a work around... I've seen it done for PQR's but not for performance qualification.

I'm not speaking with any authority here.. Just how I read the text.
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 02-13-2023 20:26
Good point Lawrence.
I guess that leaves room for lee-way in the writing of an internal performance testing specification.
It would be helpful if the code(s) did a better job of specifying how joint ends are to be treated...

Tim
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-13-2023 22:32
Hi Tim !

I’m pretty sure we will see some new text regarding the ends and tabs in 2025….  Not sure exactly how it will translate to qualification, but expect some change in the fabrication clause :)
Parent - By TimGary (****) Date 02-16-2023 12:43
Excellent!
Now if we could get the B2.1 folks on board....

Tim
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / AWS ATF Min. D1.1 Groove Test Length (limited)

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