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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Square groove on joint with no groove.
- - By DeuceHalifax Date 09-19-2024 15:05
Good morning! I have a weld symbol for a square groove at 1.6 mm with a fillet weld over top at 6mm. No big deal except there is no groove present in the parts. Should we make the parts have a gap of 1.6 mm to fulfill the groove weld requirement, or should we forego that weld to just put down the 6 mm fillet weld? Thank you!
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 09-19-2024 17:39
Not making much sense.   Maybe an RFI would be best.

1.6 mm thick base metal (for the square groove) and a 6mm fillet on top of it (fillet size 3x metal thickness)   Doesn't compute.

If there is a weld call out and no place to put the weld it seems wise to send the information back up to the Engineer & get the detail corrected.
Parent - - By DeuceHalifax Date 09-20-2024 09:58
That's the thing. The base metal is 20mm thick. Which again didn't make sense to me to have a 1.6 square groove. The structural integrity would be compromised if we went that way. It would be stronger with the flush fit it has and a 6 mm fillet alone correct?
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 09-20-2024 11:30
Hey Deuce, I feel your pain.
Poorly designed square groove weld joints are a constant struggle.
If you already have an applicable square groove PQR/WPS, you can do a validation test to see at what settings within the allowable WPS range gives you about 2mm of penetration in a joint with no root opening, and add a revision to the WPS.
If your WPS doesn't support this, you'll have to either ensure that the parts are fit with a root opening that allows required penetration from you existing WPS range, or qualify a new one.

Tim
Parent - - By DeuceHalifax Date 09-20-2024 11:54
So you believe the intent behind the drawing could be a requirement of penetration needed on the joint?
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 09-20-2024 15:25 Edited 09-20-2024 15:39
I interpreted what you said as the need for a 1.6mm size square groove weld.
Groove weld size is measured by its depth of penetration in to the joint.

There are also ways to specify and qualify deep penetration fillet welds, such as for Caterpillar specs and AWS D14.0.
In this, fillet weld PQR and WPQR test plates measure min depth of base metal penetration beyond the joint root.
Detail for this looks like -
( the forum is not cooperating by letting me attach a sketch, so I'll try to send it in a message)

Is this what you're actually working with?

Tim
Parent - - By DeuceHalifax Date 09-23-2024 11:02
I interpreted the same. We are currently running a test on our wps to see the depth of penetration on a fillet weld achieves. Thank you for the replies and thank you for trying to share the drawing. I also had an issue trying to share a snip of the drawing in my initial post.
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 09-23-2024 11:33
email sent
Parent - - By DeuceHalifax Date 09-23-2024 12:33
You are the MVP. Thank you Tim
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 09-24-2024 14:48
By chance, is this a T or corner joint?

You mention the base metal is 20 mm thick. If the configuration is either a T or corner joint it makes sense that they are specifying a PJP in the corner with a fillet weld. Maybe I said that wrong, not that using a square groove of 1.6 mm PJP in the corner with a reinforcing fillet, but just that perhaps the designer is trying to ensure proper fusion in the root of the fillet is achieved.

I agree that it is prudent to run a couple of tests to ensure you can achieved the required penetration with the square groove. I don't know what process you are using, but is you are using GMAW in the spray transfer mode, you should be able to produce a single pass fillet weld with the 1.6 mm penetration specified.

Just saying - Al
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Square groove on joint with no groove.

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