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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / cutting torch hell
- - By Alison (*) Date 08-06-2003 16:10
HI-

I work part time at a center for fine crafts and art teaching the hobby shop version of welding. As you can guess the equipment takes a beating from novice welders. I have experienced the most bizarre problems with cutting torches, that none of the books (I have) can trouble shoot, and the guys from the welding supply place are scratching their heads. Both torches are Victor J-series (the smallest version), one with 2 pipes leading to the cutting head, the other with 3. Sorry, I don't know the tech lingo for these. Tell me if you know.

Troubles are as follows:

torch #1 (with 3 pipes): just came back from getting "fixed" for a continual rythmic popping. This popping happens even when not actually cutting. This is what it was taken in for, and obviously wasn't fixed. Heads have been cleaned, seats look fine.

torch #2 (with 2 pipes): this happens sporadically...may have to do with the planets aligning...I dunno...but no rhyme or reason as far as I can tell-the cutting flame will alter from a nice nuetral flame, to having too much acetylene, doesn't cut properly, and leaves a heavy black soot. Flame also looks erratic and spreads instead of being focussed. Again heads have been cleaned, and seats look fine.

A third general problem is flames shooting back from the nut that secures the cutting head. It seems to be related to tightening the nut (no surprise there), but I'm wondering how tight the nut should be...we're using a wrench and being gentle, but just was looking for any advice or feedback regarding this problem in general.

HELP! ALso if anyone knows of a good torch troubleshooting guide, I would forever be in your debt.

Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-06-2003 16:38
Alison,
Welcome to the forum,
http://www.zianet.com/argyle/chart_cutting.htm
Try this link and see if this will help narrow down your problems.
If not, come back and ask some more.
The nut should be tightened to no more than 15 ftlbs. usually just a snug past hand tight.
Hope this helps,
John Wright
BTW, you didn't mention if you have looked at the regulator to see if it's OK.
Parent - By RonG (****) Date 08-06-2003 16:55
#1 Cuting tip loose or defective seats (air being drawn in to the flame).

This also is the Third item on your list. There are tools for repairing the seat of the cutting head but the tip (if thats where the bad seat is and I would bet on it) needs to be replaced.

#2 Problem is in the Mixing Chamber not the cutting head .Oxy or Acet valves worn or improperly installed. The valve stem is moving and changing the mixture. You can check this by adjusting the flame then twist the torch around or bumping the adjusting knobs on the valve.
Also your tips need cleaning or replacing.

Most likely some one has used them for a hammer when a cut piece didn't drop off clean. If the face of the tip is beat up the gas ports in it are also beat up and the face needs to clean and square to the gas ports.
Parent - - By GRoberts (***) Date 08-06-2003 19:27
Also make sure your regulators are working properly. The popping sound is often from not getting enough gas flow. This could be a regulator setting problem, or a malfunction, or more likely, somehthing entirely different, but it can't hurt to check. Changing from a neutral to carburizing flame might be due to reduction in oxygen pressure, which could be a regulator thing also. It will happen a lot on an oxygen bottle that is close to empty, especially with a single stage regulator.
Parent - By Northweldor (***) Date 08-07-2003 13:09
Alison:

Another source of problems with amateurs who may have frequent backfires is in the nature of the Victor torch handle with its built-in check valves. What may be happening is that backfires are blowing carbon deposits down to the valve and check valve area where they are impeding gas flow and/or causing uneven operation of gas flow through sticking check valves. I've heard that the newer Victor torches with built-in flashback arresters are even more sensitive to "beginner abuse" because of the additional restriction of the arresters. In any case, I would remedy this situation quickly, since damage to equipment and possibly, your students, may result from a flashback situation.
Hope this helps!
Parent - - By sparx (**) Date 08-07-2003 13:04
these replies have a lot of merit as to what the problems could be, although tightening the cutting attachment to the blowpipe with a wrench is not the answer. these torches are fitted with double o-rings on the outlet side and are designed to be hand tight. i realize that "hand-tight" coulb be a matter of opinion, but using a wrench to tighten a 1/4 turn past snug will damage the o-rings and cause leaking at the connection. this could also be the reason for the sporatic flame you are experiencing.
hope this helps
Parent - By aircraft (**) Date 08-07-2003 23:30
your right you are never to use a wrench
Parent - By dee (***) Date 08-12-2003 07:43
Allison, I doubt anyone will provide better support for Victor equipment than Victor themselves, Did you have no luck with the factory itself? Certainly yor experience with the service is grounds for them to get involved directly. Good luck
regards
d
Parent - - By billvanderhoof (****) Date 08-13-2003 03:41
A lot of new users will tend to keep the preheat flame way too small. That can lead to instability and might be part of your problem.

The one that goes rich is a stickier problem. Have somebody watch the gages when it's doing it. If oxygen goes low or fuel goes high it's most likely the regulator. Otherwise about the only thing not mentioned above is a bad hose- an unlikely failure mode though.

Good luck
Bill
Parent - - By thetraininglink (*) Date 08-14-2003 00:30
A lot of good input....any popping or backfires you are getting is the result of the fuel gas pre-igniting before it reaches the end of the tip. This can be cause from several things, but ultimately it is caused either from a leak in the system, or an overheated tip (from reflected heat, or a starved tip).

Being a little more specific, here's a list of possible causes of popping and backfires: A loose tip, loose hose connections, damaged seats, damaged o-rings at the mixer, etc., will cause ignition of the fuel gas prematurely causing popping or a backfire.

Starving a tip is also a common problem. What I mean by this is, every tip requires a certain cubic feet per hour volume to burn properly. If this isn't met, the flame withdraws to find more fuel and it results in the tip becoming overheated...big time. An overheated tip will ignite the acetylene inside before it leaves the tip and it explodes inside the tip. Left unchecked, it can result in a flashback, which is very dangerous. This overheating from starvation can be caused from a variety of things: too small acetylene cylinder (or one which is near empty) will not provide sufficient volume for the tip....this is especially a problem with heating tips and larger cutting tips, however a near empty cylinder can cause this on ANY tip; not setting the line pressure at the regulator properly for the tip your using will also starve the tip. Not opening the torch valves sufficiently will also starve the tip. Note: When lighting the torch, open the acetylene torch valve, ignite the acetylene (by itself) and then proceed to open the acetylene valve until ALL the black smoke is absent from the yellow/orange acetylene flame BEFORE you open the oxygen valve. This will insure that you have sufficient fuel volume for that particular tip. If you cannot get rid of the smoke with the oxygen valve all the way open, you need to increase the oxygen line pressure at the regulator. If the yellow flame jumps off the tip BEFORE the smoke disappears, your tip is dirty! And this is another cause of backfires. Keep in mind even a new tip will require cleaning before use.....use tip cleaning files you can purchase at a vender. Yet another cause of tip starvation is restriction in the hoses, ie: too many splicers. An tip can also become overheated by reflected heat due to a tight space in which you are using the tip.

The other problem of flame fluctuation is likely caused from loose torch valves, damaged torch valve seats, or even excessive line pressure for the tip being used. Keep in mind for welding tips you need a 1:1 mixture of oxygen and acetylene, usually less than 5 psi each. For flame cutting, you will need no more than 5 psi acetylene pressure unless you are cutting heavier than 3 inch thick steel! Excessive line pressure in the fuel line will cause the flame to change continually because of the back pressure at the valve.

Be glad to field any other questions you may have!

Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-14-2003 13:57
thetraininglink,
Good informative info, Thanks for posting!
John Wright
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 08-20-2003 03:49
Hello TheTrainingLink!

Good info!!! Just out of curiosity, where is the area code for your company? I liked the website but, I'm not familiar with your area code...
Anywho, good luck!

Respectfully,

SSBN727 Run Silent... Run Deep!!!
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / cutting torch hell

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