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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Titanium Grade 12 PWHT ?
- - By Shane Feder (****) Date 08-12-2003 05:08
Greetings to all from Central Australia. I noticed the posting from Happy Welder re: Titanium Grade 2 PWHT? and the excellent follow up from ssbn 727.
I have tried all the links mentioned but can't seem to get a definite answer.
The piping is to be fabricated in accordance with B31-3.
The pipe is 6" Sch 80
Operational temperature is 220 degrees Celcius (430 F)
Operating pressure is 464 psi
The product contains 12-55% solids
The product contains Copper 1-2 gms per litre
Iron 2-2.5 gms per litre
Sulphuric Acid 80-85 gms per litre
Can anyone tell me if PWHT is a requirement of the code or if it is regarded as good practice to PWHT this grade of Titanium.
Thank you in advance,
Regards S.Feder
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-12-2003 11:06
Hi Shane and welcome to the forum, always glad to see new users.
If you aren't clear on something, by all means don't hestitate to ask again and again, until you do get an answer. Thanks for bringing up the question and hopefully someone will be able to answer your question fully. I don't have any experience in Titanium and it's special qualities, but I'm sure there are others that will help clarify this for you.
Just wanted to say welcome,
John Wright
Parent - By Shane Feder (****) Date 08-12-2003 21:46
John,
Thank you for the welcome. Just wish I had known about this forum before as I have had numerous welding related technical queries in the past but no idea where to look for advice,
Kind regards,
Shane
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 08-12-2003 21:16
Hello Shane! or as they say in Australia: Gooday!

I would suggest to contact these people below for this Titanium-Nickel-Molybednum alloy...

Titanium Fabrication Corporation, sponsored the original code case in the recent ASME approval of Ti grade 12 (Ti 0.8 Ni-0.3 Mo) for division 2.(they, meaning ASME has'nt come out with a letter/number designation specification yet, only ASTM has two for your application - B861-98 for Ti and Ti alloy seamless and B862-98 for Ti alloy welded pipe)
However, things might have changed since the last time I checked, and if they did, then you would have to look for an "SB" letter for Ti alloys for seamless or welded pipe. I do'nt know for sure if B31-3 is applicable in this case but, I've been known to make a mistake or two in the past so, do'nt just take my word for it!!!

They, meaning Titanium Fabrication Corporation have the most experience with this alloy.

Here are some people to contact via e-mail:

Rich Nicholl-Engineering Supervisor: rnicholl@tifab.com

Robert E. Naro P.E.
Sales Director Power Generation: ren711@email.com

Einar Aaste Strand M.Sc. - Technical Advisor-European Operations
einar.strand@prosessventiler.no (based in Norway)

These people should help answer your question...
I'll also try to find out more for you if I can find the time...

Respectfully,

SSBN727 Run Silent... Run Deep!!!
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 08-12-2003 21:49
ssbn727,
Thank you for your response. I will contact those people immediately and see if they can help.
Kind regards,
Shane
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 08-13-2003 18:55
Hello Again Shane!

Just got an e-mail from Stacey Nyakan, a metallurgist from TIMET's Henderson Technical Laboratory.

She wrote: "Normally a stress relief PWHT is performed. This is optional but, recommended. As with other metals, PWHT reduces residual stresses in the weld zone and improves fatigue performance. PWHT of different durations are required for stress relief of the various grades.

According to the TWI "Welding Titanium Handbook", stress relief for one to two hours (depending on thickness and temperature) at 600c (1110F) max is usually adequate for both CP and 6-4 (Grade 12 is a modified Commercially Pure=CP grade) to reduce residual stress to manageable levels while avoiding excessive thermal oxidation. Higher temperatures should be avoided, since microstructural ageing can reduce toughness and ductility."

Stacey Nyakana
Metallurgist
Henderson Technical Laboratory
TIMET
702-564-2544 Ext. 369
702-564-9038 Fax
Stacey.Nyakana@TIMET.com

As for myself, I interpreted the words "optional but, recommended." to say that PWHT is'nt required although, considered a best practice...

I would also like to add that the rods or wire that you're using should be of the low oxygen type in order to prevent cracking.
If you look at all the other titanium grades, you will see that the wire chemistry is lower than the base material.

Btw, you should be able to get some additional information regarding your question from the Titanium Fabrication Corporation's people if you e-mail them all of the pertinent information including the filler wire chemistry that you'll be using to deposit the welds...

I hope this helps but if you really want to know if it's a requirement then definitely contact either the American Society of Testing Materials (ASTM) or the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME).

The ASTM uses Techstreet as their specifications and technical documents distributor. You can find these standards at:
http://www.cssinfo.com/info/astm.html When you get to this site, there's a catalogue search. Just type in the key word: "Titanium"
You should get abou 100 hits, and all you have to do is go to hits 21-30.
You'll find either one of the standards that you're looking for (B861-02 or B862-02). These are the updated versions of the previous ones I wrote in my earlier reply to you. You can order these standards for $36.00 US dollars, (I do'nt know what the exchange rate is currently with Australia's equivalent) and they will be sent in 24 hrs via .pdf document.

ASME specifications are adapted from ASTM specs. for the same products, but include only those grades or alloys of Ti that are permitted for pressure vessel construction. ASME favors alloys which have higher ductility, usually with elongation of at least 10%.
ASME requires more stringent material testing and documentation, often adopting as mandatory, some of the optional requirements contained in the ASTM specs. Otherwise, ASTM and ASME specs are almost identical.

You will note that the specification: B861-02 indicates an ASTM non-ferrous material specification and the year of the latest update.
More of this info is available at: http://www.tifab.com/subpages/tech_spec_grades.htm

I just checked out the ASME digital store but, could'nt find anything in there other than B31.3 since you're working with hazardous materials, I had to edit my original incorrect suggestion about B31.11 (does'nt cover what your application is about) The website is:
http://www.store.asme.org/category.asp?catalog_name=Codes+and+Standards&category_name=&Page=1
They also offer short courses for B31.3 that are given at various locations in North America. Check out these sites:
http://ww2.asme.org/pd/courseDetail.cfm?CO_ID=635

http://ww2.asme.org/pd/courseDetail.cfm?CO_ID=506
The first one is a bit expensive but, if you do alot of this type of work, then it's well worth it. I believe the second address suits you better...

Well - that's about all I could find out for now but, I should get some more info before the weekend so I'll post some more when I get more info...

Respectfully,

SSBN727 Run Silent... Run Deep!!!
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 08-13-2003 23:03
ssbn727,
Thank you for all the information, it is greatly appreciated.
I hope it didn't seem like I was too lazy to do my own research but I am currently stuck in a Coal Mine in the middle of the Australian outback and all my piping codes etc are at home on the coast.
( The information on Titanium was for a colleague who is designing a Gold Processing Plant for South East Asia.)
I am currently looking after the welding on the construction of an A$ 80 million Walking Dragline which is a 6500 ton piece of mobile machinery incorporating 1 1/2" up to 8" plates.
For those of you not familiar with Draglines, send me an e-mail and I will fire off some photos,
Kind regards to all,
Shane
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 08-14-2003 21:23
Hello Again Shane !!!

Well then tell your friend that he owes me a chunk of gold if he could spare one... just kidding!!!

Btw, what material are those plates made up of? Just out of curiosity...

I've seen some of those "walking draglines" in a presentation on the History channel's "Modern Marvels" and MAN!!! They are HUGE!!!
What a place to be stuck at!!!

Please let us know more about these Behemoths!!!
I'm sure that some other people that frequent this forum would be interested also...

Respectfully,

SSBN727 Run Silent... Run Deep!!!
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-14-2003 21:41
Hi SS,
Yeah, I saw the same program you did. They are huge!!!!!!!! those buckets, wow! Lots of steel in them babies.
Great show, isn't it?(modern marvels)
John Wright
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 08-15-2003 05:31
JW, it sure is!!! One of my favorites!!!

Btw, did you check out that P&H Minepro presentation on the walking Dragline? Awesome!!! Fascinating to see that VertiShield process and the end results... I bookmarked that one in my favorites!!!
Thanks Shane and Gooday to you also!!!

Respectfully,

SSBN727 Run silent... Run Deep!!!

Btw, the pool water temp was fantastic and the "sights" were nice to see also!!!
Parent - By Shane Feder (****) Date 08-15-2003 02:06
Hi Guys,
Check out this website, it gives a step by step pictorial description of the erection of the Dragline.
http://www.minepro.com/dragline_erection/estevan.html
Nothing fancy with the plates, just basic mild steel Gr 250 and 350 ( not sure what the American equivalent is)
All the best,
Shane
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Titanium Grade 12 PWHT ?

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