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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Heat straighening and bending
- - By thcqci (***) Date 09-03-2003 14:19
I am looking for a book (named something like Heat Straighening and Bending) that used to be published by AWS. Additionally or alternately, I am looking for some guidance during cambering and straightening procedures. We mostly cold bend in a cambering machine so this is not a large, looming problem but may have some beams larger than our machine can handle coming up soon.

In my past experience, when cambering a beam, we used a procedure that involved using a deep, narrow V that extended approximately 2/3 to 3/4 the depth of the member. The included angle would be somewhere in the 10 to 15° range. The heat would be applied using the rosebud at the point of the V, bringing it to a burnt orange, rust color (to a maximum of 1100°F). Once the temperature was raised to that point, the "spot" would be moved toward the flange until it had moved throught the entire volume of the V. The flange would not require much additional heating, except maybe right at the web-flange intersection since the flange should bend "easily". The member would be allowed to cool in the surrounding air until below 600°F at which point, a "mist" of water or clean dry air could be applied to speed cooling. Camber would be determined in the unstressed position at ambient temperature.

In our shop since I have arrived here, we have no written procedure (that is the point of gathering a consensus of opinions and industry standard recommendations). The practices I have witnessed include applying heat in a shallow semicircle extending usually no more than 1/4 to 1/3 the depth of the member. Additionally it has been the practice to try to heat the entire volume of the semicircle to the elevated temperature at the same time. (I have had to temper their zeal since I have witnessed the entire volume a bright orange color. I do not have temperature measuring equipment to tell me how hot that was. Used my 1200°F tempstix to confirm it was hotter than that. We now observe a maximum temperature of 1200°F!)

It seems production claims to have had webs buckle slightly when using the deeper pattern when cambering A572 Gr 50 and A992 steels. They say the older A36 would camber fine but the newer steels resist bending more so they need to apply more heat. I have argued that the pattern needs to extend deeper because when their pattern only extends 1/4 to 1/3 the depth, there is still a large portion of the web still resisting the bending. Since I have not seen their Vs, I do not know how wide or narrow they were and that could have been their problem. Their current practice take much more time, gas, heat and effort than I remember expending in the past and would like to improve (and document) our procedure.

Feedback please!
Parent - - By - Date 09-05-2003 02:41
On one of my bookshelves is a publication titled "Flame Straightening Technology for Welders", written by John P. Stewart. As I look at it, I see that my edition was printed in 1988. I honestly do not remember if I obtained this through AWS or elsewhere.
I haven't read it in years, though I do remember that it had alot of detailed how-to information on heat straightening for many different situations/configurations. And if I remember correctly, it had very little on metallurgical effects.
Any time you use heat straightening, you'll need to make sure that the temperatures utilized do not have a negative effect on the metallurgical structure of the material. Once you overheat, it's too late to go back and try again.
Mankenberg
Parent - By thcqci (***) Date 09-05-2003 12:10
I appreciate the book name. Will look it up and see if that is the book I was thinking of. Never seen it or read it because it never greatly affected my work before. Just saw it in catalogs or magazines and stuck it in the far reaches of my hard drive for future use. But now seems very applicable.

I understand about overheating steel. My uneducated friends in the production department did not understand that though. They also did not mind pouring water on orange steel to cool it more quickly either . They said they have been doing it for years before I started here and never had a building fall down. Scary HUH!

Temperature is one concern, and do not wish to minimize it, but that is easily demonstatable with tempstix and I can demand conformance on that issue because of what the code says in black and white. Getting the production department to change their technique is another matter. They have their ways and are not willing to try what some old know nothing inspector says. They know better. And maybe they do but I would still like to try my suggestion to see what results we get. I still think they take too much time, use too much gas and get too little results by using the patterns they are using. Trying to implement and document a more efficient procedure that works. What successful patterns are typically used? Am I remembering wrong?
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 09-05-2003 13:18
I can't tell you where to find that book. I do have some comments on your heat straightening. I will assume you are fabricating structural steel per AISC & AWS D1.1.

1st- I would review the requirements of AISC Standard Specification for temperature limits. I believe you'll find 1200 deg F as your max for ordinary steel with 1100 deg F for high strength steels.

2nd- don't use water to cool the steel, not even as a spray mist. I know it works really well but you will cause adverse metallurgical changes because of rapid cooling. AISC prohibits using water for cooling.

3rd- Vee heats work best if they are 75% of the section depth or even more (you are correct on this). If you are heating a heavy section, lay out your heats on both sides of the web and heat both sides simultaneoulsy (2 people). Doing this will reduce/eliminate web distortion, also known as oil-canning.

4th- use smaller rosebud tips so that heating in a specific spot takes slightly longer. The reason for this is that large tips overheat the surface so that you think you have enough heat. In reality, the 'core' for the section has not reached a high enough temp for the full movement potential. The 'cooler' steel resists the stresses imparted by the hotter material.

5th- You might try standing your beams 'upside down' with webs vertical and supported only at the ends. This is not required but gravity will help and it is easier to heat both sides of the web and the flange. Use bracing to prevent beams from overturning. It works well to clamp angles across 2 beams at the center and quarter points and heat each beam alternately. Use catch blocks to prevent sudden sagging.

6th - Start the heats at the point (apex) of the Vee and progress towards the base of the triangle. Don't try to keep the entire area hot. Once you have thoroughly heated a segment (through it's thickness) move up. When you get to the "k" section of the beam, spend extra time allowing the heat to "soak" in but be careful not to overheat the adjacent web section (remember that the "k" area is the thickest part of the beam while the web next to it is the thinnest). Hold the torches further away. And spend extra time heating across the entire flange. You get the most movement from shrinkage of the flanges.

7th- Don't trust steel color for your temperature control. Use temp sticks. I like to tape a 1000 deg F and 1100 or 1150 deg stick together so that one motion checks for 2 temperatures. I find that 1000 degrees is not enough for good movement but the 1100 - 1150 is enough

8th- Be very careful with preloading. I have personal knowledge of 2 gentlemen working for another company who met their sudden demise this way. Some people like to jack apart the middle of the beams with the ends locked in place, prior to heating, to 'help' the cambering. This does work. The problem is, the heating causes expansion that dramatically increases the stress level/ preload. Essentially it's the same as making the mouse trap spring stronger after the trap is set. As I mentioned, the results can be catastrophic; the 2 people I mentioned were sitting in between 2 beams being heated when they 'snapped' together.
The same stresses can damage the beams so many customers require engineering calculations to limit extreme fiber stress to 1/3 Fy or less.

Heating in the above steps (1-7) should give you good results. We typically get 1/8" minimum of movement per vee heat.

Make sure you have a LARGE volume of fuel and oxygen available. Excessive drawdown chills the bottles, regulators, and hoses and reduces the gases supply. That leads to starved torches that overheat and blow out the cores and is unsafe.

Avoid oxidizing (pale blue) flame settings. The temp is higher, but the BTU content is lower. You will 'burn' and overheat the surface but never get the 'core' of the steel up to proper temperature.

With 2 people heating at the same time be extra careful. Both should hold the torches towards the same end of the beam (a right-hander and left-hander work well together) to avoid pointing flames toward each other. We use clear full face shields with a 3" wide strip cut from a dark green shield for a stripe near the top. This gives good visibility while protecting the eyes from temperature, infrared, and ultraviolet. (Yes, oxy-fuel flames generate some UV too).

My last suggestion is that in order not to 'rack up the work-hours' on heating operations, set up several pairs of beams to heat in succession. When the heating is done, have the people move on to something else while waiting for cooling. The tendency is to hang around the beams to see how they react, but that is like watching paint dry.

Hope this helps,
Chet Guilford
Parent - - By thcqci (***) Date 09-05-2003 18:31
Sounds like you and I are basically on the same page. Did learn a few new things to consider though.

4) Use smaller rosebud; more concentrated deeper penetrating heat.
3) Apply heat from 2 sides.
Avoid pale blue flame; hotter but less BTUs.

I would like to explore point 2 further though. I have been under the impression that a water MIST (very key word) was acceptable. AISCs Engineering and Quality Criteria for Steel Structures, 4th edition, 2.3.2. states:

"Is it permissible to accelerate cooling of structural steel after the application of controlled heat? Yes, provided heated steel for Cyclically Loaded Structures is first allowed to cool ambiently to 600°F. Because the maximum temperature permitted by AISC LRFD Specification Section M2.1 for heating operations is below any critical metallurgical temperature for the material being heated, the use of compressed air, water mist, or a combination thereof should be permitted to accelerate the final cooling of the heated. For members to be used in cyclically loaded structures (i.e., where fatigue and toughness are design issues) it is recommended that such accelerated cooling not begin until the temperature has dropped to 600°F. This limitation is more historical than technical in nature. As a fair balance between the desires of the fabricator and the concerns of the owner, it provides an added safeguard to prevent the abuse of excessive cooling and undesirable residual stresses should accepted procedures not be strictly monitored."

I see nothing in D1.1, or AISC to say that the use of water is not permissible. I even pulled my D1.5 (which I have not used in years) and could not find any prohibition of water accelerated cooling. Kindly reference your source. Water mist has been used everywhere I have ever been on structural steel. I have stopped people from pouring water on steel. We currently use a small hand held garden sprayer to apply a mist of water.
Parent - By CHGuilford (****) Date 09-06-2003 13:38
You are correct about the use of water. Being on vacation, I don't have access to all my references right now. Our prohibitions against water use for cooling stem from bridge work, from individual state DOTs that we do work for. I have always applied that criteria for several reasons.

1) We do both buildings and bridges and it is hard to go against people's mindset. If everyone is used to using no water for cooling then fewer problems arise for us, rather than changing procedures for each job. We do allow compressed air for cooling.
2) Many people don't wait for steel to cool below 600deg F when they think no one is watching. They don't always stop at 1200 F when heating for that matter. (Once Pandora's box is opened..........)


3) We have always been able to bend steel to whatever is needed without water cooling.

4) Even on buildings, some of our customers prohibit water cooling.

Sorry, I should have clarified all this in my first post. I was imposing my personal viewpoint and didn't check my references.
In years past, I have used air/water spray very effectively on none structural projects. It cools very well and is less messy. If you want tp try that, get an air nozzle with a water siphon. Many of the air nozzles available in automotive stores have a nipple built in that allows attaching a hose from the nozzle to a bucket of water.

Chet Guilford
Parent - By Sean (**) Date 09-08-2003 20:21
Dear Doug,

Recently the FHWA has been developing heat straightening repair techniques that have been used to repair damaged steel bridge girders.

After attending the FHWA seminar, and attempting the HSR practices I was involved in training a steel bridge crew to perform HSR. Recently, the crew performed a successful heat straightening repair following the FHWA guidelines. You can find the FHWA guidelines at: http://199.79.179.19/OLPFiles/FHWA/009569.pdf

This manual outlines the amount of restraint and documents how heat straightening should be done. From my experience I have found that:
a) you use a rose bud tip that allows the operator to control the heating while at the same time applying the proper pattern.
b) the proper use of restraint will speed us straightening (or cambering)
c) the amount of movement can only accurately be measured on-site as different materials will move different amounts.

Also, I add another step to the FHWA guidelines to check for any "hard spots" hardness testing before and after the application of heat in areas that were to be heated. I would also recommend that MT be used on critical connections after and heat straightening/bending.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Sean
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 10-16-2003 16:45
I have the same book that Mankenberg mentioned, only mine is a Jan 96 version of the same. Good illustrations and tricks to manage heat to minimize distortion. We mechanically camber like you, but the larger 36" deep beams are Grade 50 or A992 don't bend as easy and we end up turning them upside down and doing like CHG stated with blocked at the ends and heat at quarter points until the proper camber has been achieved. Under 600F we have used compressed air to cool the beam off faster (you can see your results quicker). Using water is a touchy subject even under 600F and I just leave it alone to stay out of trouble. Get more than one piece out and block them up and spend time heating them work on something else like CHG stated, it will make better use of your time. Glad you brought this topic up, it needs to be discussed.
John Wright
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 10-16-2003 17:06
Just thought of something else to mention, I found that mechanically straightening pieces that were distorted from welding didn't work too well for our other plant. They mechanically straighted truck loads of steel and when it got to the jobsite to be erected it was crooked again, just like they never touched it. I guess all the stress from welding was built up from mechanically straightening and the road vibrations relieved it going down thw highway on the truck. We have always heat straighted here at this plant and in 35+ years never had to bring loads back to be straighted again (well, except for the time a trackhoe on the jobsite ran over a stack of W8x10's) I can vouch for 19 of those 35+ years.
John Wright
Parent - - By thcqci (***) Date 10-16-2003 21:34
I looked before when kipmank gave the name and could not find it in any book store online. Can you give me more information, isbn#, exact name, author (spelling different than stewart?), publisher, etc.

Thanks!!!
Parent - - By - Date 10-17-2003 04:18
ISBN 0-9692845-1-9

Title:
"Flame Straightening Technology for Welders"
Subtitle:
"Incorporating: '20 Flame Straightening Processes'"

(it looks like they combined two separate publications)

Published by:
John P. Stewart
233 Dupras Avenue
LaSalle, Quebec, Canada
H8R 3S4
tel. 514/366-8410

Regards,
Mankenberg
Parent - By thcqci (***) Date 10-17-2003 11:55
Thanks, will try to find it again.
Parent - - By thcqci (***) Date 10-01-2004 15:33
Going back into the archives to bring this back up, but I found a very good article concerning cambering. For you guys involved in structural steel, the September 2004 Modern Steel Construction periodical has an abridged copy of an article from 1989 on cambering beams(http://www.aisc.org/Template.cfm?template=/Ecommerce/ProductDisplay.cfm&ProductID=805). If you have access to AISC e-pubs, you can download the whole article. But basically it supports the heating procedure I was describing above.

BTW, I have not been able to get a copy of the Flame Straightening Technology, so if someone knows where I can get a copy, I sure would like to hear from you.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 10-01-2004 16:52


The address and phone that Kip gave above matches the textbooks I bought from Stewart last year. I have his "Welder Fitter's Training Guide" and "Distortion Control."


Here it is again for good measure

John P. Stewart, 233 Dupras Ave, Room 202
LaSalle, Quebec, Canada, H8R 3S4.
Tel. (514) 366-8410

The ISBN for the title "Flame Straightening Technology" is:
0-969-2845-1-9.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Heat straighening and bending

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