We don't have the same machines so I can't say which is correct, but our Lincoln LN-9s all display voltage and wire feed speed.
The easiest way to tell would to be to read the owner's manual. (Not being a smart-aleck here :)
You might try putting an ammeter on the machine and see if the readings are the same when welding. If they read the same then adjust the settings up and down to rule out a coincidental reading. Do your power supplies have ammeters? That would serve the same purpose.
Also, you might contact the electrode manufacturer to see if there is a WFS/amperage chart you can consult. I know Lincoln has charts for SOME of their wires. Maybe other companies have charts too?
I seems very unusual for a display to read actual amperage (I presume while the machine is running, not when it is idle?). If it does, then calibration should be easy for you.
Chet Guilford
Good Morning CHG,
I thought about it yesterday evening before I went home and grabbed the maint. dept's copy of the manual (no smart-aleck taken:). It states that it is factory set to read in "inches per minute", so I took the maint. guy out to one of the welders and ran a bead to make sure it was feeding the puddle like it was supposed to. Then I clipped the wire at the tip and squeezed the trigger (pointing in the air) for 30 seconds. I measured the wire and doubled that figure. It matched the number being displayed on the gage for Wire Speed. I should have noticed, like fltjwl said, that it read the same figure whether you were welding or not. The obvious don't always register with me sometimes. He put me on the spot with the challenge about what that number was. The displays on 14 machines in the shop are not working and he don't want to fix them, that is where this all boils down to. The other day He was helping a weldor get his machine set back up after a guy on night shift had played with the settings on the feeder. The display wasn't working so no one knew that the wire speed was 3 turns too fast except that it was obvious by the way the wire was shooting out at a unusally fast pace. Now the welder had to play with the wire speed and keep turning and turning to get it somewhere close to where he had it to his liking. Now the LN-7's we have, the knob wont turn around and around, it goes from 1 to 10 period(which is not a problem). My point was that if the display was working, that the welder could look at the display and know without running all that wire out in the floor and playing for a half hour or more welding on scrap to get it set back where he liked it. Now he's bringing the welding machine service guy out to show me that gage is not necessary and Miller only puts those on there for lazy people.
What fun we have around here sometimes.
John Wright
Squeeze the trigger and run out a few feet of wire into the air. If the meter you are looking at displays a "normal" reading, it is not a reference to welding amperage since there will be none without allowing the weld electrode to connect to ground.
If you time with a stopwatch while you run out some wire then: 60 times inches divided by time (in seconds) gives inches per minute. If that's the same as the meter reading for a couple of different settings then that's probably it. If it's displaying the value 10 it's units could be feet per minute.
Bill
Part of our confusion was that the machines amperage just happened to match the wire speed for that size wire. Other machines with different sizes of wire proved to be different readings(all of which were ipm).
John Wright
Your lazy friend should fix the machines.
Him spending time once to fix em is waaaay cheaper than welders "tuning" Machines daily by running out wire.
Let him down easy by telling him that amperage and wire speed certainly have a relationship in GMAW. However, since your digital gage runs as high as 750 (I suspect) that it must indeed represent wire speed in ipm rather than Amps.
Remember,
Plant maintanence folks run the plant so we must play nice with them.
Lawrence
I know he's (maint guy)thinking about the circuit board that cost about $500 to make those displays work. I wish I could get the boards fixed rather than buying all new boards. I've got to get the weldors to take better care of thier equipment. These feeders get knocked around, pulled around by the leads, yanked by the lead to get the feeder's cart over closer to the work. Some even leave the feeders sitting under thier table while they are cutting copes and all that splatter and sparks cover the machine. I've had to get them to move them sometimes because they would be drilling with the mag drill and sweeping the chips and cutting fluids right on top of the feeder. Then sometimes they will pull out the feeder and turn it around then put it back....later they complain about all the knots in the cables and gas hoses. I understand the frustration of the maintenance guys in some respects. I've had the AISC auditors in the past ask the weldor how he knew he was running within procedure, because he could see that these displays are not working. Maint. dept will calibrate once a year to satisfy that it is done but the poor weldor is left not sure about where his settings are actually at (bad for quality and repeatablity).
John Wright
Actually John,
The maintenance guy is half-right... you don't HAVE to have the WFS display. If you have an ammeter on the power supply, the machines can be adjusted to be within WPS parameters although someone has to run some beads while another person reads and sets the machine.
Then again, you could even set the machines to get a good bead without volt, amp, or WPS displays although it's kinda like welding with Braille.
But I agree with Lawrence, that the displays really should be working to avoid a LOT of time wasted in adjusting the equipment. (Besides, you know how some people are....350 ipm won't weld right, they need 351 !! -Easy now! I said SOME people, NOT everyone :)
Until your resolve your problem, you might want to hold the trigger for six seconds, and multiply the wire length by ten. Less wire on the floor, less time, and easier to calculate. It works well for all but the most discriminating welders.
Chet
Chet beat me to the punch as I was reading through this thread. None of our gauges work but welders know to pull the trigger for 6 seconds and multiply by 10 to get get wire feed. 30 seconds might yield a slightly more accurate number but at a waste of time and wire.
Thanks guys for the hints, any items that can help us do our work better is appreciated. I can see the weldor's side and the maint. guy's side on the issues. Hopefully we can all find the little compromises that we can all be happy with.
Thanks,
John Wright
If setting up a machine "solo" is a frequent requirement, and WFS won't work for you (many procedures list only amps/volts) you might consider investing in a Miller Digimeter. It has a hold feature that will measure amerage/voltage over a period of time and then lock in the average.
We have only one welder on night shift and this has become a handy tool....and can be used on any machine.
See Ed Craig's "clock method" for setting wire feed speed at: http://www.weldreality.com/short_circuit_under100.htm Scroll down until you see, what else, the clock!
Dave
Hi Dave,
Yep, that "clock" idea works. It gets you in the ballpark and I think the weldors will understand the concept. Ed has come up with some practical methods of doing alot of things. Thanks for posting, I had forgot to look at his site, there is so much on there and sometimes because of the way it's laid out, it's hard to find something quickly and I'll look there only when I have lots of time to browse through it all.
Have a good one,
John Wright
John--
The 0/0 setting on the Miller 60 series is the wire speed.
While wire speed is related to amperage in the CV mode, it cannot be accurately be forcasted on a digital meter. Especially before arc initiation. Arc characteristics, wire diameter, etc. are extremely variable.
Good Luck
brande
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