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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Welding NiCrNb High Temperature Alloy
- - By Niekie3 (***) Date 11-11-2003 07:43
Hi All

We welded a spin cast tube of a high temperature alloy that did not pass the bend tests. The alloy is:

G-X45NiCrNb3525

I have not been able to get an American equivalent spec, but it is essentially a 0.45%C, 35%Cr, 25%Ni, 1.3%Nb (Rest Fe) alloy, used for cracker furnace tubes. This should essentially be an austenitic alloy, and I would think, not too difficult to weld, but it failed on the bend tests.

Does anyone have experience welding this material? If so, what are the issues?

Regards
Niekie Jooste
Parent - By GRoberts (***) Date 11-11-2003 15:41
I haven't seen anthing like your alloy in US specification either. The closest I have seen is .2 C, 25 Ni, 21 Cr, 2 Nb, which was mentioned in an earlier thread about superplastic forming die block repairs. It is not in an ASTM specification though. If you look at ASTM A297, which is for heat resistant Fe-Cr and Fe-Cr-Ni castings, many of the alloys have low elongation requirements. Most are between 4% and 10% elongation. If you can find out the required ductility of the alloy and are supposed to qualify in accordance with ASME IX, you can use QW-466.1 to reduce the thickness of the bends to a more fitting outer fiber elongation. Also, to weld the above alloy without cracking, we preheat to 600F as the ductility of the alloy increases substantially when heated.
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 11-11-2003 17:10
Is this a Niobium alloy?
If so, there is a good article in this month's Welding Journal about Niobium welding process controls.

Tim
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 11-12-2003 16:00
Hi Tim!
I read that article too and it was very interesting but, no it is not a niobium alloy perse... However, It is a austenitic stainless steel with alot of Iron, chromium and nickel with some small amounts of Nb and C...

Respectfully,

SSBN 727 Run Silent... Run Deep!!!
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 11-12-2003 23:52
First of all, this material is not steel. To be classified as steel, a material must contain at least 50,1% of iron, which is not the case here. This material is a high chromium - high nickel alloy. Of course, it's not easy to weld, and the fruitless trials Niekie has made confirm this.
Second, it's an austenitic alloy, as the Schaffler diagram shows.
My advice to you, Niekie, is the following. No one knows better a material than its manufacturer. Who's the manufacturer in this case? If you know, then get in touch with him and explain him your problem. No one will be in a better position to help you.
If you don't know who the manufacturer is, then I've got a different advice. Looking at the designation, it would appear that the material has been made in Europe rather than in the USA. So, I suggest you to get in touch with one of the best (if not THE best) alloy specialist in Europe (if not in the world), which is the firm of Sandvik from Sweden.
In South Africa they have the following offices:
Johannesburg. Telephone 11-570-9602. Mr. Chris Brindley
Boksburg. Telephone 11-929-5300. Mr. Glendon Menteath.
Sandvik people are very kind and willing to be of service. I know it because they have an office in Brazil too, I've been in contact with them countless times and they've always helped me, regardless of commercial considerations.
I don't know whether the material has been made by Sandvik, possibly not, but in any case they must have a similar one and know how to treat it.
If you follow my advice, let me know the end of the story.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil

Parent - By Niekie3 (***) Date 11-13-2003 11:38
Hi Prof Crisi

I managed to get the info. I needed on the alloy. (See the other response that I posted for the outcome.)

Thanks for your information.

Regards
Niekie Jooste
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 11-15-2003 05:21
Hi Giovanni!

You're absolutely correct! I guess I should've paid more attention to the percentages... Oh well, nobody's perfect!!!

Respectfully,

SSBN727 Run Silent... Run Deep!!!
Parent - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 11-17-2003 16:43
Neither am I
Giovanni
Parent - - By markgolding Date 11-13-2003 09:42
Hi
This material is a high temperature austenitic material. With 0.45C it is never going to be ductile. Room temperature elongation has little significance for weld metal designed for high temperature service and creep resistance. ASTM HP40 castings allow elongation figures down to 4.5% (4d). The ductility of multipass welds will approach this due to carbide precipitation in successive runs. In short, this material will not bend without failure. For more info regarding the material and weldability try www.metrode.com
Parent - - By Niekie3 (***) Date 11-13-2003 11:36
Hi markgolding (and other respondents)

Thanks for your answer. I have also been searching high and low for some information on this alloy, and just managed to get the info. yesterday. As you state, the problem really lies with the fact that the alloy is so brittle at room temperature. The bottom line is that it will never be able to meet ASME IX requirements for the bend tests.

What we have now done, is to take the parent material bend angle as the acceptance criteria. It was 35°. As we were getting around 45° on the weld metal, we have decided to accept it.

Have any of you had a similar situation regarding the qualification of a welding procedure on material that can not possibly meet the code requirements? If so, how did you handle the situation?

Regards
Niekie Jooste
Fabristruct Solutions
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 11-17-2003 17:01
The reason why we are engineers is (or at least should be) to be able to deal in the best possible manner with unusual situations, i.e., those that are not covered by codes, standards, established procedures and the like.
In those cases, we have to use our "good engineering sense" to solve the problem and accept to be responsible for our decisions, even (and especially) if they aren't the best.
Congratulations, Niekie! You've given us a good example on being an Engineer, with capital E.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Parent - - By George-kh (**) Date 11-21-2003 12:19
Niekie
I just wanted to say that you’ve chosen a right way. Following is paragraph 328.2.1(b) ASME B31.3-1999
“Where the base metal will not withstand the 180 degree guide bend required by Section IX, a qualifying welded specimen is required to undergo the same degree of bending as the base metal, within 5 degree.”
Parent - By Niekie3 (***) Date 11-30-2003 14:16
Hi George

Thanks for your input. It is certainly comforting to know that there is something in the codes that supports what we have done. Do you know if this requirement is also given in B31.1?

Regards
Niekie Jooste
Parent - - By Bill Spataro Date 11-24-2003 19:47
Niekie,

Interesting. My first guess is that there is an awful lot of carbon and not enough niobium to take care of it all. That leads to the formation of other less favorable precipitates (CrC and FeC.) There should be enough chromium for the remaining carbon, but I'm not so sure there is.

Next, what are the sulfur and phosphorus contents, too high = embrittlement, too low, weld solidification problems.

What are the heat inputs, preheat may be critical to have a quench effect and prevent precipitation at grain boundaries.

Finally, did anyone run the zero ductility transition (ZDT) temperature tests (gleeble) to see if this stuff recovers enough ductility on cooling without microcracking that then leads to failure on the bend test.

Bill Spataro
Parent - By Niekie3 (***) Date 11-30-2003 14:14
Hi Bill

Yuo are right, this alloy has a very high carbon content, that means that there are a lot of carbides present. This makes the alloy very brittle at room temperature.

We did not do any other tests to establish the room tmeperature, or transition temperatures, as we felt these were not applicable to an alloy operating at around 800°C.

Our approach was merely to show that the weld was sound compared to the base metal.

Regards
Niekie Jooste
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Welding NiCrNb High Temperature Alloy

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