Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / flame cutting 3/4" diameter 6" studs
- - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-17-2003 13:32
What is the forum's opinion of flame cutting 3/4" diameter studs due to them being too long. I caught a fitter cutting 300 studs with the torch rather than the saw(like we normally do, if we only need a few four inch studs). In his defense, he was told to to do this from his supervisor. I have looked into Section 7 of D1.1, but nothing jumped out at me saying this is a "no-no". I personally felt they ruined the studs with all that heat, because after they cut them they are stick welding them, adding even more heat. I haven't bent one yet, so I'll see where that leads.

Has anyone had any experience with the code concerning this?
Any Comments?
John Wright
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 12-17-2003 14:19
John
I would bend them and see if they work. We usually saw cut them because it's neater and no clean-up is needed. And sometimes we use an abrasive saw which heats the ends a bit. But if the burn dross is cleaned off prior to welding, it should be no problem.

Sometimes we are opposed to new "techniques" simply because we have always done it the "other" way. But if results are the same, and applicable criteria are met, then we have learned something new. If it doesn't work then we have learned why we shouldn't "do it that way."
I think you are doing the right thing in being cautious but willing to test the method.

Chet Guilford
Parent - By thcqci (***) Date 12-17-2003 14:39
I would have questioned that also. Call manufacturer to ask them about metallurgical changes due to additional heat input.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-17-2003 14:52
Good Morning Chet,
I don't have a problem with them finding a short "cut", every now and then, like you said we might even find a quicker way that doesn't hurt anything. But it seems there are times we "say" we want to be a "quality oriented company" but then I find them trying to sneak things past without asking the question if it is OK or not. This method of thinking leaves me to wonder what they do when no one is watching(you know, that ole' integrity thing). It's funny because, some things that they try to sneak past me, there is nothing wrong with it, but they didn't ask, so they keep sneaking around thinking that I shouldn't know. Their minds would simply be at ease if they would just ask, I would tell them if something is OK or not. Why not be up front? They would sleep better knowing that there was nothing wrong with what they did to start with. It seems they are scared to ask our engineering department for the same reasons. Don't they realize we are all in the same boat here at the plant and only want what is best for our company?
John Wright
Parent - By bmaas1 (***) Date 12-17-2003 15:39
Sheear studs are generally just mild steel usually grade 1010-1020. If there are just a few of them I wouldn't worry about it as long as they clean them up. If they don't work the inspector will find them when he pings them.


Brian Maas
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 12-17-2003 17:15
Actually, John, I'll bet they sleep just fine. Many people don't understand reasons why specs are as they are and really don't want to know. Some of them just want what's easiest for themselves at the moment, and some just think what they are doing is just fine. As they say, ignorance is bliss. Thankfully, not everyone is like that.

But look on the POSITIVE side (sorry jon20013) I couldn't resist), if everyone followed specs, many of us wouldn't have a job.

Chet

Parent - - By RonG (****) Date 12-17-2003 17:36
What is the material and the application?

I have to say I don't see any problem with it providing the nut engagment leaves the flame cut area portruding.

We use Oxy/Acet bolt heaters every day to heat studs from the inside out while removing or installing them.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-17-2003 17:55
RonG,
They are regular ole' Nelson Shear studs. ASTM A108 Gr. 1010-1020.
John Wright
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-17-2003 17:37
Chet, for the record,
I bent those several of those studs in question and everything seems fine. It just alarmed me when I first saw it. Part of what made me sit up and notice was I remembered something over in Section 7 about not heating on studs. Well, I found what I thought I remembered and it is talking about not using heat to straighten. See Paragraph 7.8.3.

Thanks for all the input from the forum,
John Wright
Parent - - By thcqci (***) Date 12-17-2003 20:48
John,
If it makes you feel any better, YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!! I am quite sure every one of us in the QA/QC Management position, QC inspectors, etc. have people trying to side step us regularly. I have been told to my face by PAST production management that they would side step me on any occasion they thought they could get away with it! Caught them many times. They got me a few times. Learned my lessons well. As was stated above, ignorance is rampant why things are done the way they are. They act like it is our rules and we are just the bad guys trying to slow them down. The vast majority of these rules were written by someone a whole lot smarter than I ever will be. We just have training to recognize why these things are important. It is up to us as leaders to impart this knowledge to our fellow team mates. And yes, I am glad I have a job because of it. Makes for a nice daily challenge. I'll step off my soap box now.
Parent - By CHGuilford (****) Date 12-18-2003 15:01
John,
I can see where that paragraph could make us "jump to confusions". I have "mis-remembered" things before. My thought was that welding introduces heat also, probably more that the cutting would (depending on the torch operator). So if the stud could pass the bend test, it shouldn't be a great concern.

thqci,
I like to think of it this way.... have you ever seen a traffic snarl up ahead and saw that you could take the side road and get past the mess? It makes you feel good that you could bypass the problem, and it's even better when you were the first to do it and now everyone else is following. It gives a bit of satisfaction.

Bypassing inspectors gives the same feeling to many people. They don't mean anything personal by it, it's just a challenge to them. Most of the time, workers know how to do the job right because they have done it numerous times. To them, waiting for an inspector is a waste of time.
Those people don't cut corners because they want to aggravate inspectors (usually). They do it because they can't see where shortcuts makes a difference- they still get to where they're going.

The difficult part for us is not to take things personally. That is hard to do when you have reviewed a job, qualified procedures, and worked your tail off to try to make everything go smoothly, then have all that work ignored. It can be demoralizing when the "attaboys" are given to people who fought you all the way and nobody recognizes how QC helped the job.

But as you mentioned, what we do is still important. Somehow, someway, QC inspectors get satisfaction from a job well done.
A few years ago, I saw this quote: "Arguing with a welding inspector is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. You soon realize that the pig actually enjoys it!"

Chet Guilford

Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / flame cutting 3/4" diameter 6" studs

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill