starting out and making a living

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 01-08-2004 18:41

Roland,

A lot of big questions there.

My first thought is that you could combine your programming skills with some further training and become involved in manufacturing/engineering. Contrary to popular opinion America is still a world leader in welded manufactured products. Robots must be designed, programmed and maintained. Many community colleges have robotic welding and micro-processing training available.

If you’re looking for something completely different than welding may still be a good fit. Entry level wages differ from region to region from around 8 to 12 bucks an hour; however, promotion can come quickly as extra responsibilities are earned. Shop work and manufacturing tend to pay somewhat less generally. Traveling welders who have invested in their own rigs and have a good reputation have as much work as they want and often can write their own ticket, but that only comes with time and professional experience.

Both private and public welder training programs must really be judged individually on your needs and their merits, including things like...available equipment, class size/personal instruction and mentoring time devoted to each student, Night vs. day programs. Certificates vs. Diplomas and whether or not you desire transferable units. If your simply looking to be quickly certified in a particular process than the private sector is favorable, if your looking for comprehensive training that includes tools and their uses, blueprint reading and drafting, multiple processes and an ongoing relationship with your instructor than community colleges are a good place to look. Still there are a few private and public institutions that excel at both

Good Luck!

By rolands Date 01-08-2004 20:29

Thanks a bunch Lawrence for your insights, the IT industry has left me very bitter and paranoid that if i invest time in a skill thats being done on a desk that a company (in my case Hewlett Packard) can just send it of to China or India, i have got alot of CPA and Analyst friends on the same boat. my first 3 courses are Stick , TIG and technical drafting. next semester i plan to take MIG, Flux Core and blue print reading, hopefully i can get a decent wage during the day to support the family after my first 2 semesters. I think i would like welding cause i enjoy working outdoors and with my hands alot. I hear alot about being Pipe certified can anyone shed some light as to what thats all about. thanks in advance for all your input.

roland

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 01-08-2004 20:52

roland,
I've seen several people in the same position as you are in. I just read an article (yesterday) that said alot of American jobs are being outsourced to other countries (Poland, India, and others, but these were the two cheapest) that can operate for 1/12th the price it takes to get it done here at home. In our business, it is detailing/drafting that is outsourced to these countries. The problem we are having with this is we work fast track jobs and need answers today to the questions we have on these drawings.These drawings that are produced create many, many questions for our shop and it is costing us boatloads of shop hours stacking up material and putting it to the side and spreading out more material, then having to wait until they are working to ask the questions due to the timezone differences. I'll probably catch some grief for listing these countries here on a forum that is read all over, but here goes anyway. I'm not prejudice towards any of these, just I see my friends looking for work.
I wish you the best in your efforts to get back going again.
John Wright

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 01-08-2004 21:22

As others have said the wages vary among job types. The construction field seems to pay the best from my experience with a significant increase for organized labor. Shop work using GMAW or Semi Automatic processes pays least.

You can do wage searches at http://www.acinet.org/acinet/select_occupation.asp?stfips=undefined&next=occ_rep and compare. Understand that the wage survey for "welder" covers everything. Other trades will be listed that give a better comparison.

Its a little funny. I'm sitting here at the house unemployed trying to make money on database programming. Of course I still wouldn't give up welding for computer programming unless welding related. To bad your not close to Mississippi. I would trade teaching you how to put a root in a 6GR pipe using GTAW for teaching me some more current programming methods (I Use VB5.0 and MS Access/VBA).

Anyway, the "Amercas Job Bank" site above is a great place to look around. If you come across any jobs for welders with entry level MS Access/SQL knowledge, let me know:)

Good luck and have a nice day

Gerald Austin
http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com

By rolands Date 01-08-2004 23:11

John, I know what you mean with dealing with outsourced help, I had to work with a few software engineers from Bengladesh and even though they speak near perfect english there are alot of cultural differences that is hard to get over, for instance my bengali cohorts dont seem to understand the concept of documenting your code, they feel that its some other persons job, they want to specialise so much that they will be viewed as indespensible, management and developers dont gel verywell as it should. Alot of american companies dont seem to understand this fact.

Yes Gerald, such a shame you dont live near dallas tx , i could really use lessons from a pro. I use to do access/vba but thats no longer in demand, it seem that every client i know wants a web based application, so now i mostly focus on Asp.Net,Coldfusion and SQL Server/T-SQL right now, thats my bread and butter. Would be more than happy to spend a week showing you programming technic for web applications. What do you actually mean by 'put a root in 6GR pipe', is 6GR a type of certification, sorry to be so blank when it comes to welding

roland

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 01-08-2004 23:27

The 6GR is a test position for pipe with a ring added to restrict access to the joint. Go to http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com/miscPages.htm and scroll to the bottom and click the link for 6GR. There is other stuff there that may be of interest.

I started "Dabbling" with computers back in 88 but always as a tool to do my regular job. I wish I would have picked up some formal training along the way. The internet has been great though. No telling how much money I have saved on books!

I got a demo of SQL Server a couple of years ago but my only sql experience (besides Access) was on an dialup to an HP3000 using some HP version of SQL I can't even remember.

If I have something comeup in Dallas I may get in touch. I have done some inspection work at a MFG there.

Have a good day

Gerald Austin

By alumtuna Date 01-17-2004 07:47

Hello Roland,
Just some advice i like to give thats helpfull for me:
1) Do a search on Occupational Outlook Handbook; they give a general description of responsibilities, day to day duties, salaries, environment etc.
2) Start in a field that you are happy in. It will extend further to be happy in that field then be in a miserable one.
3) IT field is in a shake up now but some jobs are still available. It would probably be a field that you could make money now, instead of going to a $$$ school. There are also community colleges that offer classes for a small amount of $. I'm sure going back to school at night would not hurt on your resume also.
Good luck

By rolands Date 01-22-2004 20:37

Well folks, as an update, This is week is when i started at tarrant county college in a welding technology program, i am enjoying my welding classes alot. I didnt know TIG is much more complex than stick, in my stick class starting out with the first 2 weeks with just oxy-acetelen cutting then we start doing stick, but in my TIG class, my instructor handed me a tungstan stick, told me to grind it to a point then Im off flash burning my eyes, smelling fumes and contaminating/regrinding my tungstan.. actually had to ask a fellow student on how to setup my torch and all, a bit overwelming to say the least. Anyway I really think I will be happy burning metal together rather than being a code monkey or a server jockey.

As for the job market for IT folks coming back .. In my 9 years in the Computer profession I've never seen it get this hard finding a decent IT job, I suppose the combanation of business process outsourcing, dotcom bomb and H1b/L1 labor flood just created the perfect storm that destroyed the future of alot of computer professionals, most of my co-workers are now realtors,painters and retail workers, its sad cause i know the whole lot of them loves computer science/programming as much as I do. Right now i value my CDL license more than my comp sci degree, cause atleast i can get a job as a truck driver and pay my bills .. And yes i have seen hot sections of the computer industry like RF Programming, SCADA/PLC and teleradiology where there are job growth, and maybe I should go back to college and learn these new technologies so i can earn a living, but what happens when all these companies who need this type of programming start a new office in india then fire me cause a hindu can do what i do for 1/10 of what i make? Im back to square one again. I wouldnt suggest getting in the IT/Computer field to my worst enemy..

Im sorry for sounding harsh, the so called "Great Future in IT" is one of these topics i have strong feelings about. I really am grateful for all your career advice..

cheers,
roland

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 01-22-2004 21:01

rolands,
I wish you well, my friend.
John Wright

By JTMcC

Date 01-22-2004 23:53

All business is cyclical, 9 years is really not enough experience to have a good handle on the ups and downs of those inevitable cycles.
The welding world, in particular the construction related welding world has frequent and sometimes severe cycles, something to keep in mind.
You will be a happier if you let that animosity go. I can point out many people that would love to swap problems with you. I'm not saying your troubles are nothing, but keeping them in perspective will make things a little nicer. I know a man in his 30's, diagnosed with a genetic heart condition that would love to be able to do ANY kind of work to help support his young family. And another young friend of ours whose Dad died in his 20's, from drinking bad milk of all things. So, be glad you are still kicking and willing and able to work, I am! : )

good luck on the career change,
JTMcC.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 01-23-2004 12:18

JTMcC,
I'm glad you reminded me (in particular) to try and keep things in perspective. There is always someone else, somewhere, in a worst situation than we are if we look around a bit. This should make make us feel thankful for the health or wealth we have, however much or little it is. Being healthy enough to get out and work is a blessing I guess we forget to be thankful for.
John Wright

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 01-23-2004 21:30

Hi Rolands!
You are in a very unique situation with respect to the knowledge and experience you already have and what you are currently seeking!!!
Time to think like a sponge!!! Soak up as much as you can, graduate, get some experience under your belt... Then consider combining your new field with what you had nine years of experience with!!!
I believe Gerald already pointed this out to you in an earlier post and I would just like to add that there's pretty good money to be made as a robotic programmer with the necessary understanding of welding technology!!! Do yourself a favor and visit this website:
http://www.weldreality.com Read it in it's entirety! Most of all ask Ed som questions as to how a person like yourself could get prepared to enter the field. Btw, have you looked into how much dough robot programmers are starting out at? Check that out also!!!
Bottom line is, marry your knowledge and skills, both past and present and you'll be pleasantly surprised at the possibilities that lie ahead!!!

Respectfully,
SSBN727 Run Silent... Run Deep!!!

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 01-26-2004 17:33

rolands,
http://aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?id=4753
Thought about you when I saw this,
John Wright

By Laiky

Date 02-09-2004 13:50

this post has struck a nerve. I am in a somewhat similar situation. Presently i work in computer networking but i am very unhappy/satisfied with my job. i started out with an airframe /powerplent certification. then the gulf war broke out and the airline industry fell apart. i decided to pursue a masters in environmental science ( i really can't explain this one!). After i determined that i hated that field i got my network certs. and have been here since 99. i worked my way through college as a mechanic and have a pretty broad range of experience as a mechanic taking my A&P training into account as well as my general gearheaded-ness. I have an interes in welding from a professional/hobbie standpoint and am obsessed with learning more. I would love to find a way to roll my mechanical and networking experience into a career that involves welding. any suggestions?

By billvanderhoof (****)

Date 02-10-2004 05:42

I have no first hand knowledge of entry requirements or such but artificial limbs are becoming quite robotic at this time. Perhaps you both have the combination of skills necessary to work in this field. Inquiry couldn't hurt.
Bill

By swesley Date 02-24-2004 17:21

Roland,

I feel your frustration. I'm kinda in the same situation as you. I got into IT after I got out of the Army in 99, and have done that since then. Then I was deployed to Iraq with my national guard unit, and lost my IT job while deployed. The company got rid of all their tech support and outsourced it to, I think it was, IBM, and in turn IBM outsourced it to India or somewhere. Now 4 months later I'm still trying to find something.
But in reality I am done with the IT industry. Every IT job I've had there was always a constant threat of being outsourced, "downsized", etc. And sitting in front of a computer all day long isn't really my cup of tea anyway.

My main skillset was networking, tech support, sys admin, lots of Cisco and Unix. Unfortunately I do not have a college degree, and am not close to getting one.

What I'm currently thinking about doing is changing my occupation in the national guard to welder (currently Infantry). The school is about 14 weeks long. Like you my biggest concern is being able to get a decent paying job in the field relatively soon. I have a large family to support so I'm not really in a position to be able to start out entry-level for $8-10/hr. Though, if I can't find a job in IT I guess I weould have no other choice.

By rolands Date 03-08-2004 17:22

Im sorry it took a long time for me to reply, i just got back from my 2 week reserve unit obligation.

to swesley: i figure in the US nowadays , no one is in a position to start out with a $10 an hour job , unless your still living with your parents .. question , is the GIBILL still available to you .. i think it best to use it .. if you enroll in college for 12 hours you get $985 per month. That would help you supplement your income while your going thru those "mcjobs". training wise Im currently in my 3rd month of a year long welding program at a local community college. thus far i have enjoyed tig welding and blueprint reading. i dont much like stick welding but i know i must get good at it if i am to become a well rounded welder. ever since i told people im a student weldor i have received 2 job offers. one for a gate/fence builder , the other for an autobody place. im leaning towards the autobody place cause its tig welding .. i figure once i get my certificate better jobs will come. thus far i have giving up on my computer skills. so many people (who are not in the computer field i might add) tell me that i shouldnt give up on the "future" but reality dictates other wise. anyway as a disgruntled , disenfranchised computer person to another , my advise to you is to go for it. i love and enjoy welding, my instructors tell me that the good paying jobs out there it just requires time and practice (minimum 9 months) to get skilled in it. use your gibill to supplement your income till to you get skilled while you go though that entry level job (cause you know youll have to pay your dues for a few months atleast). remember 2 things 1.) welding is a skill that cant be outsources like manufactoring or IT. 2.) its a real skill , you cant bullshit your way thru it like you can being a codemonkey or a server jockey. its either you can weld or you cant .. good luck to you

roland

By cmpst2002 Date 03-04-2005 07:23

Hi all, I just registered to this site and found this post. Looks like it has hit home to quite a few people here. I'm ALSO in a similar situation...computer job...changing career..yada yada. I've done a little bit of MIG welding and in a few weeks I'll be taking the Motorsports Welding Workshop at Lincoln Electric in Cleveland. Next step will be finding someone willing to take on a student so I can keep practicing.

By pipeman1973 (*)

Date 03-03-2005 13:55

Our guys make 16 to start 17.25 after 6 mon. and thats with a 7% night shift diff. We also pay safty and attendance bonus. Thats 18.46 per hr. at night.