A few days ago I posted my query under the Brazing and Soldering heading. Apparently I'm being ignored or missed because no one scrolls down that far. As respondents to these forums are most gracious in imparting their knowledge and experience to others, I suspect the latter.
We are considering using the T-Drill model T-D35 (www.t-drill.com) to replace many of the Tee fittings that we now use in our copper water headers. We will be hand torch brazing mostly 1/2" branches to 1 1/2" runs. The web site and sales brochures always look good, but I'd like to hear from people who have actually used it. Did it live up to your expectations? What were some of the unexpected benefits as well as any unforeseen problems, if any? How were they overcome? Additionally, what brazing alloy did you find to work best for copper to copper?
Thanks,
Dave
I don't know what a T-drill is, and I've only brazed for about 2 hrs in my whole life. I'd say get a TIG welder and some 1/16" copper filler wire and weld them on...but that's just me :-)
welderguy,
I believe the issue here is one of production, and possibly could be one of access. I have little doubt a brazed joint would be superior in those respects (labor cost being an issue) and this joint design may actually be stronger than your welded joint in final evaluation.
Inasmuch as I don't use TIG, how long would it take to perform that weld? After prep in some kind of bulk batch for mass production and refining the torch flame, I would bet 60 seconds max for each joint and expect very much better.
regards,
d
I saw your post and looked at the link. Neat gadget, drills in then little nubs spring out and spin a hub on the way out. Unfortunately I know nothing about the alloys for brazing this but refrigeration people so this all the time. Either welding supply or refrigeration supply people should be able to help you. I see no reason why whatever you use on the current fittings wouldn't work although if you now soft solder you may want to go to a stronger material since the contact area looks smaller.
Bill
Dave,
Sorry I am not the guy who can really answer your questions.
From what I see of it the device looks pretty nice. There was a post somewhere about a heater header or other type manifold which was failing mechanically because of joint design; this device would solve that problem very well. I have never used one.
I am presuming you are silversoldering the fittings you are building now?
Here's what experience I can share:
I use a cadmium-free "safety-silv" silver solder alloy for most of my copper and brass work. Most of the HVAC industry seem to use one of two Harris alloys (because thats all the biggest supplier to the trade in my area seems to stock) but I prefer the thinner, finest drawn round wire in the safety-silv line. (small size heats/melts rapidly, easy to controll without wasteful excess but slightly more expensive per lb) Apparently my technique is rare if not unique, and critics sometimes argue my torch is too big for the job; you just have to prepare well in order to work fast. I dont recall who actually owns that safetysilv trademark, but I will take the time to find out early in the week and get back to you. It's necessary to clean and flux the joints, not the filler, with this stuff and it is has excellent flow and capillary characteristics similar to 50/50 SnPb solder; fit up must be reasonably precise.
There is another new(er) alloy which I think I recall is heavy in phosphourous, and works at a much lower temperature (maybe 600F?), otherwise it has similar characteristics to silver solders. This might save some fuel costs and speed up production. I don't have specifics on it- the supply house where it ws being demonstrated didnt know what I was talking about a couple of months later when I was finally prepared to experiment with it. It has a pale greyish-yellow color, and so far I have not noticed it used in any mass-marketed equipment.
Aside from us not having developed a habbit of scrolling down to all the forum areas I doubt many of us here actually do much brazing or soldering.
Regards
d
By echo
Date 01-23-2004 04:01
The problems I see with the T-drill is there is not sufficient contact area for the soldering process(or whatever you are using>sil-fos). The pipe itself looks like it would be weakened by the tapping process.Also as the branch pipe sticks into the main there is not a radius it the fitting since it is just formed out of the existing pipe. It looks like the connection would not flow well,it would create turbulance in the flow,would be a weaker connection,and would weaken the main. I am a plumber and install copper pipe almost every day. I have not used a T- drill. I have looked at some of the copper hydraulic crimp type fittings. The crimper is around $1000.00 and the fittings are high, but the installation time is decreased and the fitting of pipe is greatly simplified and can be done by rookies. The problem I see with the crimp fitting is they use O-rings for seals. I feel the O-rings could break down over time , get nicked over time or flatten.(I couldbe wrong on these counts,but only time will tell ) You can't always rely on new methods or materials. The T-drill may come across as great and it saved blah ,blah ,blah money on installation. Then nobody goes back and says we had 17 joints that had to be repaired because they were leaking in 6 months. David
