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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Harris vs. Victor
- - By mrbillz (*) Date 01-18-2004 20:13
Me again-

Any thoughts on these 2 "styles" of equipment? better? worse? availability of tips, parts, etc? durability?

Thanks again to everybody!
BS
Parent - - By dee (***) Date 01-19-2004 03:34
I think you'd be describing 2 brands, and I expect either is available in single or two stage. I've been told Victor is the last of the American brass. Both are "name brands"... personally if all else were equal (including the shop's support; stock of spair parts and accessories) I would lean towards Victor if only to keep America working?
On the other hand, everybody should have an occupation. (I dont need to eat all my veggies anymore 'cause the 50 million starving Chineese mom would squalk about are finding jobs now)

You should have no trouble getting parts and accessories for either one.
Parent - - By brande (***) Date 01-19-2004 05:13
If Victor is the last of the American Brass, it is late.

A great deal of Victor's production is now in Mexico. This came after Thermadynes direction.

Harris is a good mfg., as is Victor. I would guess the ESAB gas equipment (Purox, Oxweld) would be the same-offshore.
Concoa (Airco) has some unique designs that I use from time to time. The ones I use are good in performance, but I don't really know where they are built, though.

World economical pressures dictated the offshore moves. Like it or not, that is the way it is-unfortunately.

That said, I do like Victor, and only own Victor in my own shop.
When I set up systems when pricing is important, I often will go to Harris, due to the 10-20% price advantage. I either get the work with Harris, or I stay home if I quote Victor!

If we are looking at performance, though, there are some offshore mfg. turning out a good product.

Gentec is one that comes to mind, but I am very sure there are others.

Just so you know-it pains me to say this. I try to buy USA mfg. wherever I can.

Performance/dollar is always the main consideration.
After all, when it comes right down to it, except for the very hi-end applications, all we are looking at is a piece of pipe and a valve. Period.

The welding equipment arena has changed drastically in the past few years. For the better? Only time will tell.

Good Luck

brande

Parent - - By dee (***) Date 01-19-2004 20:28
Perhaps herein lies grounds for Bush's immigration proposal; I thought it was essentially to "end prohibition" and eliminate the immigrant-trade black market (which is reportedly only smaller than drugs and porn, in that order) but it may make more sense if it helps keep some manufacturing in America as well.
Parent - - By brande (***) Date 01-25-2004 05:59
Not real sure the gist of your post. Could be me. Probably is.

Anyway-in the "world economy" of today-one thing is sure.
If there is high production manufacturing in the equation, there is a high probability of it being "offshore".

Modern CNC machines can now be programmed by a monkey, and all that is left is to have a body available to chuck parts in and out of the machine. This is what the stockholders demand.

The offshore rates are extremely attractive to the major corporations.

For what it's worth...

Good Luck

brande
Parent - - By dee (***) Date 01-25-2004 16:57
brande,
I wax incoherent at odd hours when subjected to sleep deprivation... and I probably should have had the discretion to have left the thought to myself- it was in the context of a verbal conversation I had recently here at my office, anyway.

Jeeze, youre not psychic?!?

regards
d
Parent - By brande (***) Date 01-26-2004 03:24
Me physic-now that's a scary thought!! ;-)

Good Luck
brande
Parent - - By mrbillz (*) Date 01-26-2004 04:20
Thanks all!

Had someone tell me that the difference between these had to do w/ internal gass handling? Lets see, Smith supposedly mixes at the tip, and Victor (or was it Harris?) mixed at the base. Does this make a difference?

Another question that comes to mind: At what point do you all change tanks? Can you get flow all the way down toworking pressures or do you have to swap out tanks at some point before complete exhaustion?

"Preaciate all your comments and opininons!

Best, BS
Parent - By OSUtigger (**) Date 01-26-2004 07:35
BS,

I'm not sure about the Smith/Victor/Harris differences, but I will take a shot at the tanks...

As for the O2 tank, change it out whenever the regulator pressure goes below what you need for your cutting-stream jet or to get a neutral flame when welding. You will know when this happens because the torch will simply begin cutting poorly (usually for me, this is about the time that I have been back from lunch for an hour or two and still have 6-8 hours left in the day and I'm 20 miles outside of town) or you have to keep adjusting the valves on the mixing chamber to get a good inner-cone. Once you have been using them for a while, you'll be able to judge when it is about to get low, and due to the physics of a pressurized tank, you would have to have one certain special set of circumstances to actually have the O2 tank "suck" air back in (this case would be such that the tank is danged near completely emptied when fairly warm outside, the main valve is closed and check valves are removed, and the tank is reopened later when it is cooler), so just run it until exhaustion or until you don't think you can go another round before it drops below the pressure you need.

The little gas-grill propane tanks and a 125 cu. ft. acetylene tank will both last the same amount of time as two 250 cu.ft. O2 tanks if you do mostly torching, but, if my logic is not flawed, welding will prolly bring it closer to 1 to 1, maybe less. If you are using propane as a fuel, just run the thing dry or until you have no more fire, then refill it or have it refilled. Acetylene is basically the same way, but I will warn you about running it low while in warm climates-I actually had a tank that worked fine until it got down to single digit PSI's (again, 20 miles outside of town and trying to stretch a buck), at which point my torch began backfiring fairly often. I couldn't figure out what was going on until I began to notice the frequency of small grass fires had increased when the sputtering began. Turns out that the tank either heated up enough to expand the acetone inside so that it began overflowing out of the main valve or the tank had been overfilled with acetone in the first place, and every so often, a short stream of flames would spit out of the tip, landing on the grass and making a pretty neat looking fire-line.

Either way, whether you go propane or acetylene, make sure they are stood up so that (a) you get propane gas instead of liquid propane or (b) you get actetylene instead of acetone out of the tip.

Good luck,

G. L.
Parent - - By dee (***) Date 01-27-2004 02:55
Mrbillz
There is a difference in where the mix takes place- in the event of a flashback combustion can only take place where fuel and oxygen are combined. I guess it's possible for excess oxygen pressure to cause O2 to travel deep into a fuel hose, but o a day-to-day level you will notice your mixing handle get quite hot in the event of combustion traveling back to the source of the mixed gasses; the other arrangement however keeps that heat away from the brazed joints, seals, and such they used to build the torch, and hopefully keeps it in the torch tip, which has been engineered to dissipate heat. This should also serve to keep the innards clean and soot free- soot free innards posing less hazard for flashback.

Regards
d
Parent - By - Date 01-28-2004 03:43
Both brands are good but I'd stay with victor for the straight scrapping torches and it's easier to find parts for them and most shops repair them,harris is good though don't get me wrong but personally that's just hear say about the harris torches but i've never used harris!
Parent - By brande (***) Date 02-07-2004 06:59
Tip mix, base mix (as you call it) really doesn't make all that much difference.

From my experience, most torch designs work well. If they did not, the manufacturer would not be in business.

Remember- we are looking at a gas torch. Really nothing more than a pipe with a couple of valves.

While my money will always go to Victor, Harris, Airco-Concoa, there are some very good copies made.

If I were to buy an aftermarket, I would lean to Generico, or GenTec as they are known now. Rugged equipment, the price is right.

Hope this helps..

brande
Parent - - By mrbillz (*) Date 02-12-2004 00:01
Thanks again for the help- I think I have a handle on those issues-

Have been playing w/ the torch (Harris type dual stage)- Am finding the valved on the handle very "touchy" flame changes w/ just brushing the knobs- Is this a common problem or can anybody suggest a cure?

Thanks! BS
Parent - - By billvanderhoof (****) Date 02-12-2004 05:16
Generally, under the knob you will find a gland nut. Tighten it a little, that will compress the packing against the valve stem and make it a little harder to turn. This is only a partial solution, clearance in the threads in the valve will still cause you problems if you bang the torch or the valve. No easy solution to this except don't bang it.
Bill
Parent - By mrbillz (*) Date 02-16-2004 05:47
Thanks Bill, that worked well.

Parent - - By DGXL (***) Date 02-14-2004 19:13
mrbillz:
I recently had an chance to compare both Victor and Harris products up close.

I have found the Victor products to be superior in design and construction. In the past I thought them to be similar in quality, but now that I've had a chance to look at these up close, I'll purchase Victor products. I need another flowmeter and the box will have the Victor logo.
Parent - By - Date 02-15-2004 02:44
well they both can cut!...how much more do ya want!?
Parent - By mrbillz (*) Date 02-16-2004 05:49
Yeah, It seems that the Victor stuff is certainly the most popular- I went w/ a Harris set that I got w/ a 2 stage reg. Probably overkill for what I plan t do... Thanks for your opinion!
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Harris vs. Victor

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