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- - By Mathius (**) Date 02-05-2004 05:49
For those of you who followed my thread on school, and the questions I had on certifications, I want to mention, that I passed my 3/8 3G certification on the MIG, with .30 wire. I did it in 2 passes like the instructor (Alex Stoll) wanted, even though I felt more comfortable doing it in at least 3 passes, better yet stringers. I took another class, to learn TIG, and I ended up with Stoll again. Those who followed my last thread will remember that I personally felt his skills inadequate, and he more than once showed up to class "under the influence". Well anyways, I don't know if the superintendant spoke to him after I complained or not, but he was a 100% different teacher tonight. He is coming in as a helper because my class got overstaffed with 19 people, and because the 1st instructor is not qualified to teach me TIG as he only knows MIG & Arc. Stoll spent most of the night with me, and I really learned from him for once. I feel very competent with the TIG welder now on flat plate. I just need practice now to keep from making stupid mistakes (my biggest problem is I keep contaminating the aluminum by getting too close with the tungsten or dipping the filler rod too close inside the puddle and hitting the tungsten (also contaminating the weld)). I'm very satisfied with the change in him, and I wanted to share that with you guys.

Anyways, I got to talking to him about an acetylene setup that is for sale locally in my area. It's a Harris torch setup for $162 brand new, a special they're running for my school. I asked him if you could run aluminum with a gas setup and he said he was pretty sure no.

So, long story short....

Can you weld aluminum with an acetylene setup? What about Stainless?

Sorry for the long thread.

Mathius
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 02-05-2004 13:08
Based on what I have read you can weld aluminum with Oxy Acet. It is not the preferred method and requires flux and sometime special preparation.

This process is highlighted in one of my welding textbooks from high school. I have never used it myself.

Have a nice day

Gerald


Parent - By CHGuilford (****) Date 02-05-2004 17:12
Mathius,
Sorry, I can't answer your aluminum question- I just wanted to say it is good to see the problem with your instructor has worked out for you.

Chet Guilford
Parent - By RonG (****) Date 02-05-2004 18:32
Yes you can weld Aluminum with a Oxy/Acet very easly. Its the same as TIG welding but may require more pre heating of the work depending on the mass. Bear in mind Alluminum is a fantastik heat sink. Aluminum can also be welded with GMAW and SMAW (now there is fun electrode).

An old trick we used before Temp sticks became so easy to come by was to lite the torch with no Oxy, blacken the around the area to be welded.

Turn on the Oxy to a neutral flame and preheat until the black soot disapears, then it will weld very nicely. Temp sticks work better though.

SS can be welded with with Oxy/Acet just as well. When you think about it, Oxy/Acet is the same as welding with an inert gas surrounding your puddle.

Its just that the electric arc can deliver so much more heat to a very small concentrated area. Most SS's are the opposite of Aluminum and resist the flow of heat.
Parent - - By cccasey (**) Date 02-05-2004 19:14
I've seen and welded aluminum with oxy-acetylene using an aluminum stick rod. The flux is critical so use the SMAW electrode, the weld puddle flows more like a brazing puddle but does a good job.

Parent - By RonG (****) Date 02-06-2004 01:01
Oxy/Acet welding of Aluminum does not require a flux.
Parent - - By Mathius (**) Date 02-06-2004 07:22
My teacher insisted that if you weld with acetylene on aluminum, it would disperse the heat, rather than concentrate it in one area (like in TIG welding), because there's no arc force to focus it on that one area (where the tungesten is angled). He said it would create a mess. I thought myself that a good welding tip would work if you were careful and used the proper settings, but he insisted it wouldn't work. I even went so far as to ask about jewler's torches. His theory is sound, but I was skeptical as I thought I had heard that this was possible.

Can someone give me a basic rundown that's done this? What settings work good for thinner stuff? If you could help me out, common sizes we run into are 1/8, 3/16, 1/4 or smaller. He said we would experiment with it on Mon. but he seemed sure it would not work.

I've done some welding on mild steel with acetylene, but never aluminum. There's a Harris torch outfit on sale at my local welding supply that has a very good price on it (it's actually a student discount with my school, a special openhouse sale only running for a week). I'm really thinking about getting it so I can weld aluminum at home. I'm getting better with flat TIG to the point where I'm starting to feel comfortable with it. I can't afford a TIG or MIG setup right now, but I'd like to be able to weld aluminum at home.

Any information would be appreciated. It'd be nice to go in on Monday and show him something for a change instead of waiting to learn something from him. I don't mean to be so sarcastic, but he was really horrible in my last class. I'm very happy about my first night with him in this class, but it will take more than one night to make up for the time I lost. He's giving me a crash course in TIG, hoping to get me verticle certified by the end of the course. I seem to be catching on quick. It's contamination of the weld pool, and running too hot that are my week points.

Mathius
Parent - By RonG (****) Date 02-06-2004 16:44
Can't say enough about PRE-HEAT when welding Aluminum.

Aluminum melts around 1220 F (660.37C). and will continue to absorb heat to its boiling point.

There fore if you want to weld it you must PRE-HEAT. If you are welding on a large section of aluminum you may find you will need to preheat even if you have a 400 amp TIG torch.

Get a 600' F temp stick and preheat a large enough area to retard the heat sink with the torch you will be welding with (no jewlers torch you need lots of heat). If its a small project you may need to heat the entire work and what ever it rest upon. Fire bricks are great work rest for Aluminum (you don't need a conductor when Oxy/Acet welding).

If you do a good job of PRE-HEATING you will discover it welds very well and will be hard to tell from TIG (When you get some experience).

Keep your work clean. Use a neutral flame.

Do not lay your work on another heat sink like a big thick piece of plate (Steel or other wise) while welding.
Parent - By dee (***) Date 02-06-2004 19:17
Mathius,
Al does conduct heat so well you will have problems as previously suggested, but the practical solution is to use a larger tip size (than for comparable steel) to overcome this. Also bare in mind some confusion about fillers and fluxes- Union Carbide/Linde had a flux-based procedure which used Al filler- There are alloys which may technically be considered a bronze which are available in pefluxed SMAW rods which work with OA but I believe they are actually brazing the joint, and I have heard of procedures which use Al rod and no flux.

I experimented with it as a kid (more decades ago than I care to count) and never applied myself to mastering it- I have forgotten most of the details I knew back then, but I do use an MG brand SMAW [brazing] rod to repair particular Al castings with great success using oxyacetylene.

Regards
d
Parent - - By RonG (****) Date 02-06-2004 22:02
Mathius, Let us know how it turns out.
Parent - By Mathius (**) Date 02-07-2004 06:46
I'll surely let you guys know how it turns out, but does anyone have any suggestions on gas settings or tip sizes on the afforementioned materials?

Mathius
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 02-07-2004 02:19
One other property of aluminum bedsides its high thermal conductivity that may make it difficult to weld is a property called "Hot Shortness" if I remember properly. Steel when heated will begin to soften and yield (bend) under its own weight if not properly supported. Aluminum will not give any physical evidence of getting hot until it melts or breaks.

I was under the understanding that flux was required but that was from years ago so I stand corrected. I may look it up again with something other than my textbook from the 70's :)

Have a good day

GA

Iuka, MS
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / AWS Learning & Education / Tig question and comment.

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