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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / "Heli-arc",short circuit method????
- - By welderman (*) Date 04-05-2004 07:21
Has anyone heard of a "Heli-arc" process, that uses 2 shielding gasses,"not mixed", but comming out of the same torche as two seperate
columns (1-argon inner core), (2-Co2 outter core)??? Used for aluminum
and s.s., and with a "shot circuit transfer mode)??? And if yes, what is
it called, binary, dble shielded, or short circuit transfer????
I am going to contractors license school, and one of the questions on
the test is this one. I think they got the Q/A's mixed up, because I never heard of, " short circuit transfer T.I.G.". Unless they are talking
about scratch or lift start, Maybe M.I.G., but with two seperate gasses??? thanks, Bill.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 04-05-2004 11:04
That one has me stumped.

Heli-arc pretty much by definition has failed as a process if a short circuit occurs either by the wire touching the electrode or the electrode touching the work.

Co2? Not with TIG, in my experience.

I have seen duel torch gasses in plasma (PAW) and micro-plasma arc welding setups. but the plasma gas is 95/5 Argon/ Hydrogen, never Co2. Here is a good link from the excellent US Army welding library, scroll down to figure 10-35 http://www.machinist.org/army_welding/ch10.htm

Here are the NASA genuises at it again with 3 gasses: http://techtran.msfc.nasa.gov/Patents/(44).html <--click on 44 on the list

If it's allowable, bring us the exact text of your question. Somebody here will have an answer.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-05-2004 11:51
L,
I thought you were in Chicago this week taking in the sites and sounds at the AWS show for me?
John Wright
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 04-05-2004 12:28

John

I'll be there tomorrow.

Will be doing some final specs on a new Radiagraph (prolly a Bug-0) and a new GTAW powersource (prolly a Dynasty 300 Dx).

Anything/anybody special you want me to check out?
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-05-2004 12:51
L,
I'd love to be there myself this week, but I can try again next year. If I can schedule my vacation in around it, I can make the show. The times that I made it to Chicago, I was able to see off of the Sears Tower from the top, but not much else. My trips through are always too fast to enjoy. I'm sure AWS will have plenty to see. I was particularly interested in taking in as many of the seminars/talks I could, to learn all I can while someone is there willing to share. I just need to learn how to optimize the use of our old equipment, because I know we won't spring for any of this new stuff they have out now. Enjoy the show and report back in with all you've seen. :)
John Wright
Parent - - By bmaas1 (***) Date 04-05-2004 21:05
"Heliarc" is an old trade name of Linde I believe.


Brian J. Maas
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 04-05-2004 23:51
Yeppers!
Russell Meredith (from Long Island) invented the process and sold the patent to Union Carbide (Linde was one of their divisions at the time). They came up with the trademark: "Heli-Arc"

Anywho, it reads like someone's got their processes crossed, mixed-up, confused or they live in an alternate universe where that sort of stuff actually works??? Maybe on the test, the questions are multiple choice and this description is meant to see if you know the differences, nuances involved with the different power source types & their output (CC & CV or CP), methods of transfer that do'nt apply to the process in question, shielding gases that are known not to work with a particular process, confusion in the description of the terms and definitions that may or may not apply to a particular process...
If the question is multiple choice and one of the choices is: "none of the above"??? Pick "none of the above" because your instincts were correct regarding the contradictions in the question relating to the two different processes terminologies... In other words, the GMAW terms or shielding gas used in this question are'nt used in GTAW. Finally, If this was an attempt on their part to describe a "hot" wire fed automatic GTAW application, then it was a lousy one to say the least!!! Good luck in getting your license welderman!!!

Respectfully,
SSBN727 Run silent... Run Deep!!!

P.S. Lawrence! I'm really bummed out about not being able to attend the welding show in Chi-town!!! I'll e-mail you my reason... Oh well, maybe next year in Big D - Dallas that is...
Parent - By welderman (*) Date 04-06-2004 06:36
Yeh, SSBN727, maybe I will have my grandmother quiss me on welding, her questions will probably be as good as these and maybe she
might know the answer.
thanks Bill.
Parent - By welderman (*) Date 04-06-2004 06:21
yeh, me to, I think the writters of these test questions probably are
not familliar with welding. thanks for the (army welding link).
thanks Bill.
Parent - - By billvanderhoof (****) Date 04-06-2004 04:40
"Short circuit transfer" implys a mig (gmaw) process. I have not seen the term in any other context. I have heard mig (gtaw) referred to as "heli-arc" usually not by those in the trade though. There is a mig process which employs a flux core wire with a (usually) co2 shield (referred to as dual shield). Are you sure this is not what is being referred to? I have not seen a process as you describe but it may well exist.

Good luck with your research-
Bill
Parent - By welderman (*) Date 04-06-2004 05:59
no, the test question specifically states (2) shielding (gasses), that come out in an inner column of argon and an outter column of Co2. and
then to top it off these were the four choices - binary, double shielded, pulse spray, or short circuit mode. answer being (short circuit mode). so I think they are confussing two different processes, or maybe they
had a few to many before they wrote up this stuff.
thanks Bill
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / "Heli-arc",short circuit method????

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