Due to recent air quality issues at the local college where I instruct,some of the older long term instructors have gone in for urine and blood work testing for levels of metals in the body. Not surprising, all were testing high or above the average for certain metals,mostly Manganese,Iron and Sellinium. While elements like zinc,lead, chrome,cobalt blah,blah,blah were within the high range of population averages, the others stood out above like sore thumbs,most likely due to them I guess being common in the rods and of course materials (Steels) used during welding training.
Now,in regards to the air quality issue they are now issuing resp. protection to each and every student,which with our Apprentice program in Alberta,they go through every eight weeks.
My Questions to the forum are, has anyone heard of documented studies,on the long term effects associated with elevated levels of metals in the body,mainly but not exclusive to Manganese,Iron and Sellinium?
Has anyone a confirmed illness due to exposure,and accumulation in the body of metals?
Have you been tested?
Concider the seriousness of Asbestos and associated risks (E6010 Coating years ago),are we exposing ourselves, family, students to the next big health issue instructing them in welding or pushing them in that direction?
Maybe this web site should have a Health and Safety discussion board? Personally,I don't care where Weldo is, but I do care about my health.
While not a regular poster,I do check in as time allows, and I feel this is a relevent issue for all welders.
We just had an air quality survey here at work. They placed a couple "collectors"(for the lack of the proper term) on two of our welders and they had to wear these devices for eight hours to get an eight hour weighted result. The lab is still working on getting those results back to me, but as of now, I don't know where the exposure levels are. Some of the welders were concerned for their health and asked us to do this for them and we did. We recently went through an OSHA audit and the auditor also asked us what the exposure levels were. We had sampling done but the data was about a decade old, so He looked throughout the shop and his guess was that we shouldn't have any problems due to the layout and ventilation in our wide open shop. I'm responsisble for the safety of all my guys here and I take that personally. I too would like to have reference material available here on the forum.
John Wright
Our data came back and we are OK, way below the OSHA PEL's. I'm glad that turned out that way for us. I hate to have to make the respirators mandatory. It has always been available for employees to use if they request it, but not mandatory. Most of the elements did not show up enough to even measure and the ones that did, were way under the PEL's.
John Wright
You are more likely to find Weldo.
Manganism is a hot topic as it seems some Lawyers have discovered it is a way to make money. It is reported that excess exposure to manganese MAY develop parkinsons like symptoms. MSDS's for welding electrodes have always recommended respiratory protection or other forms of control to reduce exposure to fumes.
You may want to do a search for the metals you listed at http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/homepage.html . You will find plenty.
Have a good day
Gerald Austin
Plasma:
As for iron and manganese, OK. Iron is the main component of steel and manganese is always present in it. So, no surprise that older welders are contaminated with them.
What I don't understand is where the sellenium comes from. Electrodes and rods have no sellenium in their composition. Sellenium is a rare and quite expensive chemical element that years ago (I don't know whether it is still so) was used in photoelectric cells because it releases electrons (i.e., electrical current) when exposed to light. Sellenium is also a poisonous element, and traces of it are sufficient to produce diseases in humans.
Now, let me correct one statement of your post and please don't get angry with me. E-6010 coating has no asbestos in it. E-6010 and 6011 coating is made of cellulose, whose chemical formula has nothing to see with asbestos. E-6010 coating has sodium silicate as a binder whereas E-6011 has potassium silicate. It is true that asbestos is also a silicate, but of a very different nature than sodium and potassium ones. One difference, for example, is that sodium and potassium silicate are water soluble and asbestos is not.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo = Brazil
Giovanni, friend...
You haven't got me upset regarding your correction to my comment regarding asbestos in the coating of 6010,but if you review my post it was that at one time it was used in the coatings before its hazards became accepted for what they were,a risk to health.
I do stand by my comment to it having been in the coatings years ago,and although not in use for 20 years,its the long term when the illnesses show up from its exposure. Sure it has been removed,but do your research,it was an active ingredient in the coatings of E6010 electrodes before its association to health risks became known.
On however to my original post:
My results have come in from urine and blood tests.Element followed by level ,followed by average.
Selenium,1.11 (0.00-1.00)
Manganese, 25 (0-20.0)
Aluminum, 0.08 (0.00-1.18)
Antimony, 4 ((0-10)
Barium, 0.05 (0.02-0.05)
Arsenic, 0.23 (0.00-1.35)
Beryllium, 0.09 (0.00-0.22)
Cadmium, 7 (0-10)
Copper, 0.2 (0.1-0.8)
Thallium, 2 (0-49)
Zinc, 7.6 (2.0-12.0)
For the record, I don't take multi vitamins.
As well, recent hires have been tested and have lower levels in almost all cases.
Further air quality testing is on going and while we wait for results, all students are being fitted and fit tested for respirtory protection.Not a bad thing really...Turns out its cheaper to do that then fix the problem of air quality and that is the reason they are doing it???
Typical of management...
During a recent meeting, Our Dean was asked what he thought we should do for the next couple of years till the problem was resolved or a new building built,his comment was "just exhale".
Good response eh.
Noel Chyz,
Nait Welding
Edmonton Alberta Canada
Hi Plasma
I have been struggling to get this post through, so I hope it goes this time. (I hate typing the same thing more than once!)
A quick look at your test results does not have anything "way out". You also state that the results in brackets are average. Do you know what the maximum allowable are?
You were worried about Fe in your first post, but you do not show it here. At any rate, Fe is good for absorbing O2 into the blood. (Thats why the athletes do all kinds of things to try to increase their Fe content.)
Also, Se is said to be important in increasing the body's immune response. (Big issue in South Africa where HIV / AIDS is a big problem.) It is found in multi-vitamins and also some foods. (e.g. Pronutro - Do you guys have Pronutro in the USA?)
Regards
Niekie Jooste
Fabristruct Solutions
Umm...have you ever looked at the label on a bottle of multivitamins to see what's in there? Iron, manganese and selenium are all added to vitamins. Do the "older" instructors that all tested high for these minerals, also all take multivitamins? Probably worth checking into to see if the test results were really related to welding, or if it might be due to some other routine activity.
Hi Marty,
I've noticed, like you stated, trace amounts of all sorts of potentially poisionous elements in multivitamins. I think the whole point is that they are trace elements and not concentrated doses. I'm not a physician, but I would "think" that multivitamins could possibly raise your levels of some of these metals if you took a daily regiment of them and they would show has "higher than normal levels", especially if your body accumulates it faster than it can dispose of it. (purely my opinion, not based on anything other than that)
John Wright
Our companies are in the process of issuing welding hoods with filter systems in our plants because of the hazardous fumes. I've heard that welders who breathe in "toxic" levels of manganese fumes produced during the welding are at the greatest risk because the intense heat releases manganese in the welding electrode, and over a period of time breathing these fumes causes permanent brain damage that results in significant shaking and tremors similar to the onset of Parkinson's disease. I did some research, and found that some of the symptoms of manganese poisoning are slowed movement, decreased hand agility, depression, difficulty walking, distorted facial expression, increased irritability, joint pain, loss of equilibrium, loss of short term memory, sinus problems, slurred speech or slow speech, stiffness in arm and leg muscles, or sudden and/or severe mood changes. Hey, wait a minute. I take multi-vitamins, and I used to be a welder too. At least I think I did, but I can't remember for sure. The only thing I remember is that everybody marveled at my weaving technique, but I wasn't doing it on purpose. I guess I was shaking so bad I was weaving and never knew it, and I thought the whole time I was running some really nice stringer beads. Come to think of it, depression set in a few years ago too because I remember once wearing a neck brace for six weeks. There was nothing wrong with me, I just didn't feel like holding my head up. I have to go now. I'm getting too dizzy to type, and I 've only been working on this post for two hours and forty five minutes, but I'm improving. I'm up to almost three words per minute and four if you count the I's. b b by th th thhee w w wa wa way, d d d d ddoes an an annny bb b b body kkkknnnoowww a a a a g g g goooood law law laaawwwyyerrrrrrrrrr ?
Sorry guys, I couldn't resist. It's been a long day.
:)John Wright
Hey, no need to apologize. I appreciated the humor.
'Course, along with that, I wonder if the lawyers have wised up to the speculated link between Alzheimer's disease and aluminum. But the thinking is that aluminum chlorhydrate in deodorant is largely responsible. I hate to think of what will happen to local air quality if that substance were to be banned from use!
Chet Guilford
By Muskwa
Date 05-18-2004 14:04
see me about the latest JWHSC meeting minutes. There has been a change in official policy......your office mate
