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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Anti Spatter Products
- - By spatter Date 04-26-2004 14:31
I would like to do a informal poll?

How many of you use anti spatter sprays and how useful are they in the welding process?

Is spatter a problem for you and does it cost you $$$ in productivity or is this not a concern for you?

Let me know your thoughts.
Parent - By CHGuilford (****) Date 04-26-2004 16:19
We use FCAW for most of our welding. If parameters and technique are correct for the application, spatter is not a big problem. Most of it scrapes off easily with a brick chisel and it is part of the de-slagging process.
We do use some anti spatter sprays; usually for items that need a nicer architectural finish. It also works well for pre-blasted steel when spatter usually sticks pretty tight. We have to be careful though, because some porosity problems we had were found to be caused by overuse of anti spatter materials.
I'm sure spatter removal costs us $$ but we have never actually measured it. Removal has not been a big issue.

Chet Guilford

Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-26-2004 16:45
Nozzel dip is about the extent of anti-spatter use for us too. Now remember that we are a primarily non-robotic structural steel shop and only steel that will be seen in the finished building gets any special attention. Like Chet stated, if the parameters are somewhere close, there won't be much trouble to remove the light spatter, if necessary. Semi-auto FCAW/100%CO2 and manual SMAW are the two processes that get used in our shop. The nozzle dip is only used if long fillet welds are being placed with FCAW. The dip keeps the nozzel clean enough from build up of spatter to let enough shielding by to prevent porosity in long continuous welds. Our welders are so used to trimming the wire and cleaning the nozzel after each weld that it is second nature and if there wasn't any build up in the nozzel they would be cleaning it out of habit anyway.
John Wright
Parent - - By mudbone (*) Date 04-27-2004 00:26
I have been using a new product called "Spatter Shield". It's an "In-Line" system (it gets diffused with the shielding gas.) The up front cost is, of coarse, more than sprays or dips, but it works quite well. it keeps the nozzle, tips, fixture and the parts 99% spatter free. our end of the shift clean-up is much reduced also.
Parent - - By Pascal (*) Date 04-28-2004 07:33
Hi Mudbone,
What welding parameters are you using?
Regards,
Pascal.
Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 04-28-2004 12:58
We do about the same things as Chet and John. In the shop, we weld with FCAW for structural and GMAW for stairs, handrails, ladders, etc., and our field erection crew uses SMAW. We use nozzle dip throughout the shop. In the structural department, we use spatter spray when we weld in tight areas, and on all AESS areas. In the misc. department we use spatter spray on most everything because of the exposure of the finished product. Some misc. shops use the 75/25 gas with .035 diameter wire. It essentially leaves no spatter, but the lack of penetration worries me, so we use 98/2. It doesn't leave much spatter, but we spray everything to make the cleaning easier. Years ago I was taught that materials are cheaper than labor, so if I can spend a few bucks on anti-spatter and it speeds up cleaning the welds and adjacent areas, and eventually pays for itself, go for it. As Chet stated, be careful not to saturate the joint with it, because it can cause porosity, and you also end up wasting it. Personally, I don't like to see weld spatter on a finished product, whether it is exposed or not. I know that D1.1 allows tightly adhering spatter to remain on the steel unless it needs to be removed for testing purposes, but I just think it looks so unprofessional. I've seen work of some other fabricators, and there's spatter all over the place. On some of this stuff, it looks like the only thing the welder did is to clean the slag, and in some cases, didn't do a very good job of that. When AESS is not a requirement, we don't try to get every speck of spatter off, but I'd say that we remove at least ninety something percent of it. In addition to slag removal, spatter removal is part of the welders responsibility. It doesn't really take a lot of time without the spray, unless it is in a tight area, so we're not really running up the man hours by trying to get most or all of it off, because as Chet stated, it scrapes off easily with a brick chisel. One last thing. I'm wondering how this in line spatter shield that Mudbone is using has an effect on the essential variables in Table 4.5 of D1.1 regarding shielding gas.
Parent - - By Pascal (*) Date 04-28-2004 22:36
What is table 4.5 of D1.1, I am unfamiliar with this? Where can I find it?
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-29-2004 09:46
Hi Pascal,
Table 4.5 "PQR Essential Variable Changes Requiring WPS Requalification for SMAW, GMAW, FCAW, and GTAW" in AWS D1.1 : 2004 Structural Welding Code - Steel lists the variables, that if changed from the original PQR will require a new PQR, to re-qualify the WPS. Item #'s 18,19 and 20 deal with shielding gas.
John Wright
Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 04-29-2004 12:52
Hi Pascal,

To elaborate on the information John provided, just in case you don't have access to D1.1, item 18 is a change in shielding gas from a single gas to any other single gas or mixture of gas, or a change in the specified nominal percentage composition of a gas mixture, or to no gas. Item 19 is a change in total gas flow rate of either a decrease of more than 20%, or an increase of more than 50%. Items 18 and 19 apply to the GMAW, FCAW, and GTAW processes. Item 20 applies to the GMAW and FCAW processes, and is a change in shielding gas not covered in the following: AWS A5.18 (for the GMAW process using carbon steel), and AWS A5.28 (for the GMAW process using low alloy steel), AWS A5.20 (for the FCAW process using carbon steel), and AWS A5.29 (for the FCAW process using low alloy steel). These are called essential variables because when they are changed beyond the limitations set forth in the original procedure qualification record with regards to shielding gases as described in 18, 19, and 20, they affect the soundness of the weld. For this reason, as John stated, a new procedure qualification record is required to re-qualify the weld procedure specification. It also serves as a written confirmation of a sucessful weld procedure specification.
Parent - By Pascal (*) Date 04-29-2004 23:26
Thanks guys, much appreciated. I'll get back to you as to whether our product affects the essential variables set in the PQR. My feeling is that there will be no effect but I will confirm this at some stage.

Pascal.
Parent - - By mudbone (*) Date 05-02-2004 15:04
We are welding 10-18 steel with Er70S-6
24 volts.
180-200 amps
85/15 Argon/CO2 @ 35cfh.
We have an In-House lab, so I am able to monitor effects of process changes. I started using this product in Nov 2003. to date there has been no effect on the weld as far as appearence, fused legs, throat or depth of penetration. The advantage I've found to using the in-line system is cleaning the equipment. With the dip gel, the fixtures and surrounding surfaces were coated with a sticky film to which all of the welding residue would stick. this would have to be cleaned by scraping and scrubbing with solvents. With the Spatter Shield, clean-up is just a mater of brushing or blowing. The only problem I've encountered is getting through to the weld operators that it's impossible to eliminate the spatter altogether. Our weld cycles are short (7-10 second) and a ring of spatter builds up around the outside rim of the nozzle. With no anti spatter, this must be cleaned every 5-10 cycles, the dip gel extended this to about 20 cycles. The spatter shield extends this furthur to 40-50 cycles.
Parent - - By Pascal (*) Date 05-03-2004 04:03
Thats some pretty hot welding mudbone. Can I ask what pressure your'e running at? Without knowing too much of what application you're welding for, I assume you are using either a grey or red probe?

I also assume your'e using manual welders too due to your mentioning of your weld operators? Maybe informing your operators that a few seconds saved every day amounts to so many in a year, and convert that to how many more welds you can produce, or into a cost saving for the company.
Parent - By simons (*) Date 05-04-2004 17:20
(alias mudbone) We're running at 35 cfh. The first test I ran was using a black probe. I've just recently switched to a blue probe to see if there is any added benefit. As far as the Operators go, we are using fixed automated welding cells, so the operators are not much more than machine operators.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 05-05-2004 07:18
Hi Pascal!

I just want to clarify that it's not the amount of "pressure" mudbone is using that matters... "cfh" does'nt mean to "pressure" at all.
It simply means the Cubic Flow rate per Hour.

I mention this for students not to assume that these terms have the same meaning because, they Do Not.

Respectfully,
SSBN727 Run silent... Run Deep!!!
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 05-05-2004 13:11
Cubit Feet per Hour = CFH
John Wright

SS,
I know you knew that but I thought maybe someone else didn't.
Hey, How's that studying coming? Exam day is coming up soon, I think you said May something.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 05-08-2004 06:51
Hi JW!!!

I had to come up for some air so to speak!!! "Up from the depths of the studyville trench, down at the bottom of the technical sea"!!!

It's coming together just the way it ought to, thanks for asking!!!
I really appreciate your help in my preparation for the upcoming CWI/CWE exam on May 29th, 2004 up here "in the Burgh" - Pittsburgh that is!!!

I've been getting better news from my doctors lately also!!!
After my exam, they're looking to lower my dosage of anti-rejection drugs to 1mg x 2 times a day, which will be 1/2 of what I'm currently taking and will lessen the side effect of my bones becoming brittle!!!

All in all John, life is good!!! As long as I remember to stay greatful and remain faithful, life is better than just good but, I say good in the context of practicing humility...

I hope everything is well with you and your family in your own "slice of heaven". I say this to you sincerely because you deserve that slice by being the person that you are in trying to help anyone in need wherever and whenever you can!!!

Respectfully,
SSBN727 Run Silent... Run Deep!!!

P.S. I'll let you know how I made out friend!

Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Anti Spatter Products

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