QUALITY CONTROL

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 05-19-2004 14:57

Process?

By bmaas1

Date 05-19-2004 17:33

What kind of issues?

Brian J. Maas

By EVWELDER (**)

Date 05-19-2004 18:20

Sorry forgot to mention we do both GTAW and GMAW its more GTAW than GMAW the problems we are having is miss welds that are found when they get to inspection I would like to eliminate them but know thats no possible so maybe minimize them.Also crater cracks and just general bad welds problem is we are a very fast pace company and that is often the welders excuse.

By bmaas1

Date 05-19-2004 18:34

Do you have in process inspection? What do you produce? You can always pull the welders off the line to repair their own work if you have some type of tracking system.

Brian J. Maas

By thcqci

Date 05-19-2004 19:22

TRAINING, TRAINING, TRAINING!!! In process inspections are definitely required. Can you track welds back to the welders that made them? Essential for identifying and fixing the problem.

If there is time to go back and do the job right the second time, there is more than enough time to do it right the first time. Rework cost much more than twice the cost to do the job right the first time. Someone in management will need to get that message. You just keep doing your job and accepting good work and turning down substandard and unacceptable work.

If there is no one inside your company to help with technical issues (a welding foreman or engineer) then your welding supply vendor should be able to get someone to help with welder training, techniques and procedures. They usually have someone with technical experience to help with technique and procedure problems.

By EVWELDER (**)

Date 05-19-2004 19:55

Yes we have inspection we would just like to minimize any problems before they get to inspection. We bulid aluminum truss for the entertainment industry.

By chall

Date 05-19-2004 20:10

Hello,

I don't have a lot of time to make this sound nice. Here are a few things we've discovered along the way:

Cleanliness is godliness in the aluminum world. Tools used on aluminum materials should only be used on aluminum. Weld preps should be machined or cut if possible (avoiding the use of grinding tools and flapper wheels).

Interpass temperature above 250F has proven to reduce 6061-T6 (as welded) tensile strength unacceptably low (for us).

Material that has been prepared and is not used relatively quickly, will begin to form an oxide coating that will cause porosity if the coating is not removed.

Experimentation with shielding gas may be needed for your welders. Aluminum may be welded with just Argon, but many claim adding some helium makes it easier. As far as I'm concerned, it's in the hands of the welder. That said, remember that gas composition is an essential variable for the WPS.

Proper joint fitup seems to be more of a critical issue on aluminum than some of the other materials.

Welders that are very experieinced with steel and inexperieinced with aluminum, will probably struggle at first. It doesn't matter if they are expert welders, the techniques are different.

Good luck to you,
Charles Hall

By Niekie3 (***)

Date 05-24-2004 14:36

Hi EVWELDER

Are your people paid per item produced? If so, this will be the root of the problem. The best way to improve quality on the shop floor (assuming that the problems do not originate from poor management systems.) is to foster pride in workmanship amoungst your welders. When people do not care what their welds look like, they are obviously not proud of their work.

The best welders I have come accross, are those that take pride in their work. For them, any repair found (e.g. during radiography.) is in some way a shame for them. They will take great pride in telling you that they welded an entire vessel / job / shutdown etc. without any repairs.

Obviously pride starts with management! Has management explained to the welders why the product they are making is important? Do the welders understand the impact of poor workmanship on the performance of the company etc.

Your quality problem is a typical "behavioural" problem. The best way of finding the solution to this, is to use a behaviour based problem solving technique. This is something that needs to be endorsed by management.

Hope this helps.

Regards
Niekie Jooste
Fabristruct Solutions

By kam

Date 05-19-2004 21:03

I would have to agree with post about training being most important. Then after they are trained you need to develop a system to hold them acountable for thier work. Even the best welders make mistakes so you should have something that records number of reworked parts over time and see if so have higher rate than others then work with them or retrain them.
As for missing welds it might be possible to setup a counter using an arc data monitor. They can count the number of welds that were made and if the part is in some type of fixture then you can set them up so that the part is not released from the fixture until X amount of welds are made. Have worked with these setups and they can work nicely if they are maintained.
I havent welded alot of aluminum but those cracks sound like they are not ramping down the voltage correctly at the completion of the weld.

Hope this helps

kam

By EVWELDER (**)

Date 05-19-2004 22:58

I'd like to thank all you guys all this information is very helpful also would like to ask kam were I could find information on an arc data monitor.

By Sean

Date 05-20-2004 11:29

There are a number of companies that produce arc data monitor's. I'm assuming that you are in the states, try CWT (Computer Weld Technology) and there is another company called Accudata (or the accudata system). Some of the software is very neat and allow's you to track a lot of information.

Based on what you said I would agree with thcqci that it is likely a training situation. Not to mention that from what I've see of monitors it is likely that the training would be a better investment than the weld monitoring systems.
-Sean

By kam

Date 05-20-2004 15:59

CWT is the brand I have used. Lots of them out there. You'll have to do a search.

kam

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 05-21-2004 11:04

Here at work, we get the welder that made the boo-boo to fix his/her own boo-boos. Identifying who made what welds is essential in returning the rejected welds to their owner for repair. Around here, another thing that helps with cutting with the oxy/fuel torch is to have the guy/gal who burned the material to grind their own cuts. After a while they seem to find ways to cut down on the time spent repairing or riding those Wildcat grinders.
Just a thought,
John Wright

By weldeng13 (*)

Date 05-31-2004 15:02

I used Impact Engineering's weld monitoring system and it worked very well. They also make a system for tracking welds completed and the parameters for each weld made. It can sound an alarm if it goes outside of established parameters. If you call, you want to talk to Stephen Ivkovich, here is his contact information.

Stephen Ivkovich
IMPACT Engineering, Inc.
500 East Biddle Street
Jackson, Michigan 49201

517.789.0098 voice
517.789.1038 fax
www.impactwelding.com

Hope this helps,

Peter Kinney

By Michael Sherman (***)

Date 05-19-2004 21:38

We have had many of the same problems in the past. Assuming you have competent welders, the number one thing is accountability. Once you can prove who in your shop made the bad weld (or missed them entirely) you will eliminate alot of problems.

Mike Sherman
Shermans Welding (for now)

By swnorris (****)

Date 05-21-2004 13:04

We had some problems with weld quality and accountability in our shop that unfortunately made it to the paint shop without getting caught in the fabrication area. I pulled all the welders and the checker out of the shop, took them to the paint shop, and showed them the welds to try and find out who made them. Of course, no one admitted to it, and everybody used the same lame excuse that they're always in a hurry. When we're under a very tight schedule and really being pushed is when we have these problems, but being in a hurry is absolutely no excuse for putting out non conforming work. It's just as easy to do it right than to do it wrong, and in most cases, it takes even less effort to do it by code. To remedy the situation, I assigned all welders a stamp, and have them stamp their letter underneath the shipping mark. Also, whoever drills holes, and cuts or grinds blockouts initials their work with a paint marker. In case something falls through the cracks, the cleaners and painters are educated to look for things like unfilled craters, uncleaned or poor looking welds, a bad radiused blockout, etc. To take it one step further, disciplinary action is taken against those who continue to produce nonconforming work, whether it's welding, cutting or grinding blockouts improperly, drilling holes, etc. The first occasion is a verbal warning, second occasion is a written warning, third occasion is suspension from work, and fourth occasion is termination. So far, I haven't even had to resort to pencil whipping anyone. The stamp and initialing seems to have taken care of accountability, and even though we're still being pushed, the weld quality, holes, and blockouts are pretty much where they should be.

By thcqci

Date 05-21-2004 19:43

Sounds like your employer has the right person in place in the QC Department.

By swnorris (****)

Date 05-24-2004 17:27

Hi thcqci,

Thanks. That would be me. We have a small structural/misc. shop that does some pretty big jobs. To keep down overhead, I have to wear many hats. I am the production manager, and among other things, I also make cutting lists, nest materials, purchase materials and supplies, keep a running inventory, issue drawings and revisions, do the hiring, firing, and disciplinary actions, set the schedule and hours, write weld procedures, qualify tackers and welders, schedule and oversee deliveries, keep up with safety and OSHA, I wrote the drafting standards for the company, etc. I have a sort of QC checker type guy, but I am constantly monitoring the quality and workmanship throughout the plant. Needless to say, from time to time, I am spread extremely thin, and I have a very low threshold for poor workmanship, or very little time to deal with problems caused by it. Since quality and adherence to the ASTM, AWS, AISC, SSPC, etc. codes are so critical, I make it perfectly clear to everybody I hire what is expected of them, and I hold them and their supervisors 100% responsible and accountable when things don't go accordingly.

By thcqci

Date 05-24-2004 19:12

Helps when you have production management (you) backing in QC matters. My production management is much more on board recently due to some turnover (retirements) and now we have new blood is working beside me. Has not always been so. Feels better to be on same page with production department and upper management. We are not all the way to the top of the mountain, but we are close. I can see the bright light at the end of the tunnel and this time I don't think it is the train.