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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Truck frame cracking and breakage
- - By stever (**) Date 05-20-2004 20:44
[deleted]
Parent - - By Sean (**) Date 05-25-2004 01:26
Stever,

The spider like web cracks are a bad sign. I wouldn't bother with a welding repair without a manufacturer fix. Simply welding the frame may create more problems and will likely only provide a temporary solution or move the cracks to another spot on the frame.

The cracking of the frames may indicate that there is a design issue (hard to tell without seeing the cracks and doing some testing). During production the frames are tested for fatigue and for failure so this problem should have come up... that being said no one/nothing is perfect.

I would suggest the owners with the same/similar problems get together and talk to the dealer/manufacturer to resolve the issue. If the dealers/manufacturer won't help then perhaps the owners should get a metallurgist (or another Engineer) involved to identify the cause of the cracking, which would tell the owner if it could be a design issue. They would then have some paperwork to back up their claims to the manufacturer. It may cost some $ at first, but, if it is a design issue, I'm sure the manufacturer will cover the initial cost and repair.

Let us know how things go.

-Sean

Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 05-25-2004 11:08
I own two 03' chevys, A Tahoe(wife's) and a Silverado(mine). Let me know how this turns out concerning these cracks.
John Wright
Parent - - By ross (***) Date 05-25-2004 18:13
[deleted]
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 05-25-2004 18:57
Hey, You've got a nice one! The wife loves her Tahoe, says it's the best vehicle she's ever had. My Siverado is a 2500HD crew cab.
John Wright
Parent - By welder6g (**) Date 07-26-2004 12:04
Being a CWI myself I just checked out a 26,000.00 Jeep Wrangler 2004 on the showroom floor with some of the worst GMAW welds I have ever seen.Lack of fusion between the joints,porosity and skips! Keep up that good ole`world Trade agreement!
Parent - - By kam (**) Date 05-25-2004 13:49
Its actually failing below the weld nugget (underbead)? Do the brackets look like they have been overloaded?

kam
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 05-25-2004 14:57
Kam,
Have you seen this too?
John Wright
Parent - - By kam (**) Date 05-25-2004 15:23
Nope....just curious. I would think that if they were off roading and the overloaded the brackets you would see evidence of deformation.

kam
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 05-25-2004 15:28
I was concerned because I have a lot of money sitting in the driveway with bowtie emblems on them. I haul a pretty heavy 30ft travel trailer behind my Silverado. Hate the thought of having to look for cracks in the frame already.
John Wright
Parent - - By OSUtigger (**) Date 05-26-2004 04:08
Stever,

Just curious as well, but is this only happening at the shock absorber mounts or in other places too? If it IS only the shock absorber mounts, my first question would be are the shocks aftermarket or factory--The only time shock absorbers carry any sort of load obviously is when the suspension system is upset (i.e. going over a bump, pulling your front right and rear left tires onto large boulders to show off articulation to your buddies, etc.) and this is more of a mechanism to handle the effects of impacts than forces, really. If the damping of the absorbers is too high (aftermarket) the absorber acts more like a rigid member than a soft cushion and therefore increases this impact load, and fatigue occurs.

The reason I say this is because bowties are infamous in my area for being slammed, notched, chopped, bagged, and lifted among other verbs with connotations describing some automotive modification or other. Now, I may be chasing butterflies out in left field, but if this is the case, the manufacturer should not be responsible in my opinion when an aftermarket component is placed on their product because it was not designed for that component (like putting a 2 ton hoist on a half ton crane because the half ton hoist couldn't pick up what you wanted it to, whose fault is that?).

Anyway, there's my random thought for the day, and good luck!
G. L.
Parent - - By stever (**) Date 05-27-2004 02:18
[deleted]
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 05-27-2004 12:37
I've had a storm blow in every evening since I read about this, so I haven't had a chance to crawl under mine to check the shock mounts yet. But if it's dry this evening, I will. I checked briefly online looking for service bulletins, but didn't find any.
John Wright
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 06-10-2004 17:24
Stever,
I crawled under my truck the other day and looked around at the shock mounts. The top of the rear mounts on mine are welded to a pipe cross member that goes through the frame and is welded to the frame which is boxed in (plated over, boxing in the channel) at that location (looks really beefy), the bottom of the rear mounts are welded to the axle housing. All of my rear mounts were in good shape. The top of the front mounts are welded to the frame with fillets and look to be fine, the bottom of the front mounts are welded on the lower control arm and look good too. I think my truck is OK from what I could see. Whew!
I greased the chassis while I was under there. Glad to see they put grease fittings on the ball joints and tie rod ends, etc...(the Ford and Dodge guys here at work are having to replace the lower ball joints on their trucks, probably because they don't have any grease fittings)
John Wright
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 06-14-2004 15:47
stever,
Which mounts are you seeing the cracking issues with?(Front or Rear, Top or Bottom)
John Wright
Parent - - By stever (**) Date 06-14-2004 19:32
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Parent - - By mailman Date 06-30-2004 11:19
I have this problem with my 2000 ZR2 (Chevy's big S-10) and another person who bought the GMC model of it who lives 10 miles down the road has had the same problem. His occured at 90 thousand, mine at 80. Same spot, above the shock. Mine on the right, his on the left. On the other side of mine there are very apparent cracks. His dealer replaced his frame. Mine says to file auto insurance (right). A weld simply will not do as I carry the mail in this truck. As a matter of fact. I dont really want the truck back. My confidence in their ability for them to disassemble my truck and make it route worthy is low. Any information you guys can give me on this matter would be greatly appreciated as I already see trouble looming.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 06-30-2004 12:08
So you're a literal mailman... I read where you said you "carry the mail", and I first took that to mean you had a heavy right foot. :)
I'm not sure how much confidence I would have in a weld repair to a frame (particularly where there are spider web looking cracks) unless a lot of NDT was performed to assure the problem has been fully repaired and not just waiting to show it's ugly head at a later date. I can understand your concern in getting the frame replaced and being confident they did it correctly. Where does this issue fall concerning factory warranties? Isn't the automaker at fault? If this is a clear case of fatigue failure and not some sort of abuse to the frame. I guess they place the burden of proof on you and then they figure you the consumer won't spend the bucks to fight it, so they tell you to file it with your auto insurance.
I wish you the best in getting this resolved,
John Wright
Parent - - By dcreynolds Date 12-02-2004 02:02
I'm am currently the owner of a 2002 GMC Sonoma ZR2. Last week I discovered that the Drivers Side frame is split at the welds and spider cracks are showing on the Passenger Side. Thus far, GM Toronto is telling me that no other cases of this have been reported in North America. I need to know where your friends' dealership is and the dealership you spoke to. My truck has never been airborne or in any accident to warrant this damage nore is the any damage to any other part of the truck to indicate abuse. Any help that anyone can offer may help not only myself, but others like yourself who have run into this problem.
Parent - - By mailman Date 12-02-2004 02:58
email me at mailman@tds.net and i will give you the specifics. The reason they claim this has never been heard of before is because it is never DOCUMENTED!!! They (finally) put a new frame under mine..3 weeks later handed me the keys and I walked out. No paperwork..nothing.
Parent - - By dcreynolds Date 02-18-2006 21:25
Good Day again, albeit, 1 year later. Have you checked your frame since it was replaced. I happened to check mine the other day, and guess what? Spider cracks on the drivers side, and a broken weld on the pass. side. I have found more evidence on the net about this and I am fed up with this POS. So many little things have broken, and now frame # 2. I have not off roaded AT ALL since the last time, and it is babied over speed bumps and such. Just thought you might want to double check yours.
Parent - - By mailman Date 02-19-2006 03:15
hey dc.
I sold that truck a few weeks ago, I DID get a Chevy Colorado, 4 door. You can bet i will keep an eye on the frame. I think if I were you I would start calling and emailing Chevrolet and raise absolute hell until I got some satisfaction.
After they put the new frame under mine, Every nut and bolt that could rattle, did.
Are you in the USA?
Thats what attorney Generals are for. Call them. Raise a stink. I can back you on it. Get a new truck out of them. Think of the possibilties of what could go wrong if this frame broke in two while driving down the highway.
I get an email every now and then from a truck recall website. Cant find it right now, but when it comes again I will send to you. Good luck DC.
I do not think this is just a Chevrolet problem. It has to do with cheap foriegn steel that every carmaker uses now.
let me know. keep me informed
Parent - - By dcreynolds Date 02-25-2006 18:55
I'll tell you, I'll never own a GM again. They hired an independent metal specialist to go over my truck. His report indicated that the damage was caused by something that I have done to it. However, they are fixing it at no charge, and adding braces to the frame. If I DID do something to it, I'm pretty sure that they would not be fixing it with 123000km on it, Double of what the warranty is. Anyway, I've found a great deal on a Dakota (not my first choice, can't afford insurance on a Nissan or Toyota) and they're giving me a great trade in for the Z. Here's hoping the headache is over. Take care and thanks for your response.

DCR
Parent - - By Mwccwi (***) Date 08-21-2006 13:23
Check This Site Out Ed list where he got his info.The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)
http://www.weldreality.com/Bad%20Weld%20Trucks.htm
Parent - By yorkiepap (***) Date 08-21-2006 18:45
Now that is really eye-opening and disgusting to say the least. Where and when does it end?????.....Denny
Parent - By Sourdough (****) Date 10-07-2006 02:41
Sorry for your troubles. Went outside and checked my wifes 01 Tahoe, and my Duramax. Couldn't find any cracks, but got scared nonetheless.
Parent - - By welder6g (**) Date 07-31-2006 12:55
[deleted]
Parent - - By racefn_4824 Date 01-12-2007 01:28
Hi Guys,

I need help finding some information on how to deal with GM about my ZR2 frame cracking.

I have a 1999 ZR2 S-10 and found out about a week ago that the frame is cracked really bad on the drivers side front where the lower control arm bracket is welded to the frame and where the frame is welded together.
It is cracked along the weld and then up and around the lower control bracket and is just starting on the right side in the same place.

The service manager at the Chevy dealership where I bought the truck is giving me the run around and telling me that GM will probably not do anything about it because it is a 1999 model with 106,000 miles.

The mechanics at the dealership told me that this should have never happened, but they have no control over what GM does.

How can I go about getting something done by GM short of getting an lawer?

I figure you guys that have had the same problem could give me some ideas or tell me how you got GM's attention with this problem?

Thanks,
Mike
Parent - By Mwccwi (***) Date 01-15-2007 22:47
check this out.  http://www.weldreality.com/Bad%20Weld%20Trucks.htm
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 01-21-2007 14:58
Hi, Mike I have never had this problem but have worked at a chevy dealer I ran the body shop and if your truck has over 100,000 on it rest assured that gm will not do anything about it any type of long term warranty they express never goes over 100,000 niles anything over that they will not pay for yes you got a bad frame but it is passed the 100,000 mile mark and they will not fix it i really doubt getting a lwayer would help you everytime i tried getting sumthing replaced over 100k they told me no good luck i agree they should stand behind thier product but any court will go with what is expressed in thier written warranty
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-22-2007 06:26
My $.02: I USED to work at a plant that USED to make GM truck frames [Dana Corp. Parrish Pressed Steel]. At that time they would routinely pull frames from the production line and fatigue test them in the lab. To My experience the "spiderweb cracking" is a fatigue issue, as a few serious overloads of ANY component would bend or tear the material. You can be pretty sure that the materials used in the initial testing of the frames held up in the fatigue tests, but these problems might be linked to inferior metal quality, lighter guage substitution, or a change in part shape due to tooling wear issues. Welds coming apart, or cracks and or tears starting at welded joints are most likely from poor weld quality but could be from sub standard material quality. When I was working for Dana, the limit on carbon content was .05% for frame material. At least in those days at Our plant a lot of testing was done to prove the initial design, but it can all go to hell in a handbasket in production.
Parent - By JIXSER Date 05-02-2007 05:55
Hey Mike,

I have the exact same issue.  What have you found out if anything?  I am just now finding out about this.  My 2000 ZR2 is having the "Exact same cracking issues". 

Please let me know what battles you have won or lost.

Thanks,

Jixser
Parent - By JIXSER Date 05-18-2007 01:30
hey mike,
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Truck frame cracking and breakage

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