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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / MIG wire diameter question
- - By Alison (*) Date 06-07-2004 12:53
Is all .030 the same? I would have assumed so, but this past weekend I put a new brand in (I forget the kind, pink box, made in Turkey....maybe Thysen something), and it kept either jamming in the machine, or the wire feed slowed down so much as to be non functional. It seemed to be having trouble coming through the .030 MIG electrode/tip. When I reamed out the tip a bit (it was old anyhow), it worked better. Never had a problem before with the wire feed. The new .030 even looked and felt a bit thicker, but it was labelled .030.

I'm using a Millermatic 135, 115V MIG, with Argon CO2 mix. They are used to teach beginner, so they do go through a bit.....


Any help is great.

Alison
Parent - - By sparx (**) Date 06-07-2004 13:15
Quality control is something that the major wire manufacturers spend a lot more time at. The end result is premium wire, same composition from start to finish, same diameter from start to finish, etc.....this usually results in a premium price, but well worth it if you don't have feeding problems, inconsistent mechanical properties, and the like. Off shore wires, and I hope I don't offend anyone here, because that is not my intent, lack some of the testing equipment and quality control as some of the higher end wires. As I mentioned earlier, don't read this as an insult to offshore wire manufacturers, they do have their place.
just my 2cents worth
Parent - By pjseaman (**) Date 06-08-2004 23:30
Alison:
I agree with sparx I buy a consistant brand that is reasonable price from a reputable dealer. If you have a problem they will help.
Good luck,
pjseaman
Parent - By billvanderhoof (****) Date 06-09-2004 03:41
I've noticed that goop (scientific term) builds up in the back of the contact tip also. Then when you change wire it gets disturbed and runs sticky as you describe. Solution for me is to clean the tip when I change wire. It may be that the wire you changed to was indeed thicker. I don't know the tolerance but one surely exists that states a range of size that is nominally .030. Otherwise wire drawing dies would be worn out almost immediately after being placed in service.
Bill
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 06-09-2004 13:13
You might want to try using a 0.035" tip. It is not unusual to do so and is often done for welding at higher amperages to prevent binding caused by the heat. "Reaming out the tip a bit" probably didn't really open it up that much.
As another post mentioned, you might want to clean out your liner to make sure no "dust" gets dragged into the tip and causes binding.

Chet Guilford
Parent - - By Alison (*) Date 06-09-2004 19:35
It was a new tip, so I don't think it was dirty. I checked just about everything else, so I'm still pretty much thinking it is the wire diameter. It was made abroad, so maybe...?

Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 06-09-2004 20:38
You might try (as Chet stated) the .035" tip. That extra .005"(about the thickness of notebook paper) is not going to hurt anything and when (as Chet stated) the welds are long and continuous or running higher amps, the tip will get hot and the wire may bind in the tip with the .030" tip.
John Wright
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 06-09-2004 20:43
Just thought of something else,
Make sure you have the tension set correctly on the drive wheels at the feeder. If it is set too tight it can deform the wire and not feed through the tip correctly. This is more common with fluxcored wire than with solid mig wire, but it can happen if the tension is way too tight.
John Wright
Parent - By swnorris (****) Date 06-09-2004 22:04
Hi Alison,

I don't know what to tell you about your concerns with the possibility of a variation in your wire diameter. I've never heard of such a problem, but over the years I've only used either Lincoln or ESAB. Here's a few things you may want to check out regarding your setup. A couple of these have been already been mentioned:
Good wire feed starts at the drive rollers. Check that the driving roll has the right size V groove to suit the welding wire, and that the groove is not worn. Good quality welding equipment will feature a driving roller at least 30mm in diameter, with a precision machined wire groove. Smaller diameter driving rollers may not provide sufficient grip onto the wire. Often the first reaction to poor wire feeding is to increase the clamping force applied to the drive rollers. However, excessive clamping force will deform the wire and roll a tight curve into it, which only adds to the problem.
Also, as the wire passes through the gun liner, over time, contamination from the surface of the wire builds up inside the liner, slowly increasing feed resistance to the wire passing through it. Liners often get clogged over a period of time. This results from either the fill falling out, wire lubricant rubbing off on the liner, or infrequent change outs of the liner. If the fill is falling out, you may have sharp bends in the gun assembly or the wire is being bent coming out of the payoff pack. In some rare cases, the wire lubricant packs inside the liner. Quite often it is advantageous to put a cleaning pad ahead of the feeder just to prevent excess lubricant or dust from entering the liner. Steel Wool or Scotch Brite pads work great, but the pads that can probably be found in your local weld supply shop are pretty inexpensive.
Liner blockage is often another cause of wire feeding problems too, and when it occurs the liner really should be replaced. When installing a new liner, pay close attention to the manufacturers recommendations. A liner cut too short may not align correctly with the gun tip, leading to more wire feed problems. Wire surface contamination can be reduced if the welder has a fully enclosed wire feeder, which of course protects the wire spool from dust or grindings present in the air, and from surface deterioration due to moisture. The contact tip is where the welding current is transferred onto the welding wire, so for good welding conditions, the wire must have constant contact with the tip. As the tip wears, the current transfer becomes less reliable, and again the arc becomes erratic.
In many cases an oversize liner is chosen for a gun assembly with the intent to make things loosey goosey on the inside of the liner. The practice is well intended, but the outcome can be disastrous. Wire stacking can occur in these assemblies when a particularly soft wire has room to bend inside the liner itself and not conform to the liner curvature. To avoid this problem, choose the liner with an inside diameter at slightly larger than the wire diameter, leaving very little room for stacking. .010" to .015" clearance if you can get it.
The last thing you may want to look at is the gun assembly length. Often the longest gun assembly length is chosen to cover all aspects of welding positions and fabrications. While this is a good idea, occasionally the long length assemblies, i.e. longer than 15 ft. result in feeding problems. It's just too long and too much resistance.
Most wire feed problems can be resolved by making sure the drive roll groove is not worn, by replacing a dirty or clogged gun liner, by not applying excess clamping force to the drive rollers, by replacing worn contact tips, and by protecting the wire from contamination.

Parent - - By billvanderhoof (****) Date 06-10-2004 03:54
Can you mike a piece? Could be mislabled or just out of spec.
Bill
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 06-10-2004 22:05
I agree with Bill!
If the wire was made in Turkey, then because they're used to using SI units of measurement as opposed to US customary units, there may be a problem from incorrect conversion in this particular batch where your spool came from... Even though this possibility is remote, it could happen! Either way, using a micrometer or a vernier caliper (better if you have access to both US and SI unit instruments), converting your measurements both ways, and inquiring about the tolerances this company works from would help you find the root cause.

I believe the company you're talking about is advertised in the monthly welding journal published by the AWS so, I would think it would be in their best interest to work with you in order to find out if indeed there is a QA issue regarding their wire diameters especially if they want to break into the domestic market such as ours so, give their US rep a call or e-mail them and let us know what you find out.

Best of luck to you!!!

Respectfully,
SSBN727 Run Silent... Run Deep!!!
Parent - By Alison (*) Date 06-14-2004 16:11
You guys are the best!

Unfortunately the wire is about 2 hours away from me right now, so I can't check the dimension, but I'll see if someone can do it for me. I'll find out the name of the company and contact them regarding it too.


Many thanks, and I'll let you know once I get measurements.
Parent - - By billvanderhoof (****) Date 06-17-2004 04:02
Further thought on this and this is conjecture rather than anything I have first hand knowledge of- if you ask a U.S. manufacturer to make this wire he will see .030 and use that as the spec when he manufactures the wire. In much of the rest of the world the manufacturer will see the alternate definition of this wire, .8 mm and manufacture to that size. .8 mm is .0315 inches. Enough difference that you might sense that the wire is a bit thicker and probably enough to cause some difference in feeding, especially if the machine has gotten "used" to smaller wire.
Bill
Parent - - By rodofgod (**) Date 06-19-2004 00:02
Hi All1

Whilst I don't think this is the answer to your problems, A problem I've come across when FCAW welding, is the fact that the wire can 'expand' whilst in contact with the tip! Mainly when welding stops for what ever reason! When welding operations start again, the wire has expanded and so ,sticks in the tip!The use of a bigger tip usually alleviates this problem!

Regards

Parent - By sparx (**) Date 06-21-2004 13:01
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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / MIG wire diameter question

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