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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Crack problem on welding cast iron
- - By alfred aryadi e (*) Date 06-08-2004 03:41
dear all,
I am Alfred, from Indonesia. I need you help aboout my problem.
we have part repaired (turbine engine), diffusser, made from nodular cast iron D-58. welded with AWS A5.14 (ER Ni-3) or ER NFe-CI
the procedure is:
1. Solution treatment at 900 F for 2-5 hour
2. By using torch, maintain area to be weld (repair crack) at temp.400-450 F.
3. weld when still hot
----- delay------
4 post heat at 900 F for 2 hr. then cool at open air
5. Inspection by fpi---- found crack in welding areas

part diameter is about 75cm, it shape like bowl.
kind of defect (befor weld) is crack ( 0,5 inch to 1 inch long) and the location is spreaded on the wall
removing crack by rotary cutter (rotary file)
i am very need your advice.
thank you

Best regard
Alfred


a
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 06-08-2004 11:37
Hi Alfred,
I'm going to leave the answers to your problem for the ones on this forum that know more about your situation with working with welding the cast steel material.

However, I would like to know more about your inspection method that you are using to detect the cracks. I am not familiar with the designation of "FPI". Are you referring to Flourescent Partical Inspection (a form of MT)? Or is it Flourescent Penetrant Inspection (a form of PT)?
I'm guessing it's the latter of the two.
Just curious,
John Wright
Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 06-08-2004 14:12
Hi John,

Fluorescent penetrant is a variation of the dye penetrant method. It requires ultraviolet light to reveal defects. If there are defects, they appear in sharp glowing contrast to the surrounding flaw free surface. The fluorescent penetrant is an oil base agent with suspended fluorescent particles capable of penetrating every surface defect. It is applied by dipping, spraying, or brushing the piece to be inspected. After it has entered any seams, cracks, and pinholes, the surface excess is washed away with a water spray. When it has dried, a dry powder of water suspension developer is applied to dreate a dry powder film on the surface. This draws the penetrant up from the defect. The inspection is done under a black light in a darkened booth.
Another older simple method for detecting surface cracks in castings is to swab the damaged area with a kerosene soaked rag to remove dust and grease. Allow the kerosene to penetrate any cracks, then wipe the area dry. Immediately chalk over the area with ordinary blackboard chalk. After a few minutes, even cracks not visible to the naked eye become evident by the kerosene in them bleeding back through the chalk.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 06-08-2004 15:06
Hi Scott,
I'm very aware of the penetrant (PT) and mag partical (MT) testing methods using flourescent dyes for the PT, and flourescent particals for the MT wet, just hadn't heard it called "FPI". Additionally, with the kerosine method, flour could also be used as a developer if chalk wasn't readily available. I haven't done a lot of Flourescent PT & MT except checking some automotive parts for some racing buddies, but was qualified Level II here at work in those methods of inspection. Very rarely do I see requirements in the specs for us to PT anything, but MT (dry probe) is used quite a bit verifying rat holes in Group IV and V materials (mainly large section columns) and then some specs just call for 10% MT of all fillet welds. Here latey, I have been Mt'ing all pieces to be hot dipped because of all the troubles we have had with a certain galvanizer. I was just verifying that the cracks are not there after fabrication and before galvanizing, but are there after a certain galvanizer dips them.
John Wright
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 06-08-2004 14:35
Are you opening the crack to a "v" shape prior to welding? How thick is the joint ?

It is best to use a method of preparation that allows for complete penetration at the joint. You may have already done so but I thought it best to ask.
Have a good day

Gerald Austin
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 06-08-2004 15:44
Gerald,
Wonder if drilling a small diameter hole at each end of the crack and V 'ing it out ,as you stated, along with all the heat treating, etc... will help keep this crack from keep moving along the part?
John
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 06-08-2004 15:56
I have read that helping however I have always veed out the joint and rounded the ends of the root opening. Most of my repairs were on Gray Cast Iron so this material may respond differently. Our repairs were done with No PWHT.

I would look into the joint configuration and welding sequence before suspecting heat treatment but again, I'm not experienced with this material.

GA
Parent - By swnorris (****) Date 06-08-2004 14:48
Hi Alfred,

Nodular iron, sometimes referred to as ductile iron, is available in several different metallurgical conditions. One ferritic form provides high ductility, another ferritic form provides high strength. A pearlitic form provides high strength, and an austenitic form provides maximum corrosion resistence, high temperatures, and thermal shock. Ductile iron is readily welded when in the ferritic and pearlitic state. When maximum strength and ductility are desired, the part should be in the fully annealed condition. The main concern in welding, then, is to reduce the rates of heating and cooling to prevent cracking. The more complex and massive the assembly, the longer the time and higher the temperature required for heat treatment. It is desireable to preheat the part to 550-750 degrees F and to reduce cooling by external heating. To ensure good penetration, it is desireable to remove the cast iron skin. Nodular iron can be welded by most welding processes, but regardless of the process used, the preferred practice is to use electrodes specifically manufactured for nodular iron. These electrodes have a composition of approximately 60% nickel and 40% iron, with a carboniferous lime-spar flux or coating. Should you opt to use SMAW, the E310-15, E310-16, and E7018 electrodes have been sucessfully used. Amperage should be low to insure minimum dilution and minimum local heating. 3/32" diameter should be at around 60-70 amps, 1/8" diameter should be at around 90-100 amps, 5/32" diameter should be at around 120-130 amps, and 3/16" diameter should be at around 140-150 amps. Parts should be covered with an insulating material to produce slow cooling. For best results, post heat treatments to 850 degrees F for four hours, or 1000 degrees F for two hours.
This link may be helpful:

http://www.twi.co.uk/j32k/protected/band_3/jk25.html
Parent - By R-win (*) Date 06-08-2004 14:59
Alfred,
I would recommend welding without preheating with max interpasstemp 75 degrees Celsius (=160F). After welding 2-3 cm, immediately start hammering the hot bead until deformation of the bead is visible. This is to prevent stress due to shrinking of the weldmetal.

You mentioned solution treatment 900 F? This is (too) low for solution; it's even a low temperature for stress relieving. Or did you mean degrees Celsius?

Cracks in welding areas: be specific : in weldmetal or in HAZ?
Regards,
Erwin
Böhler Thyssen Welding
Parent - By R-win (*) Date 06-08-2004 15:08
Alfred,

MIG-welding with the mentioned ER NiFe-CI could be ok, but in case you should hammer, SMAW could also be applied. I would not use E 7018 or 310. Specially develloped stickelectrodes gives best results, like UTP 8 (E Ni-CI) or UTP 86FN (E NiFe-CI).

Erwin
Parent - By Michael Sherman (***) Date 06-11-2004 12:43
My opinion is that there should be no delay between welding and post heat and it should not be allowed to cool in the open air. I believe you are cooling it too fast. Insulate it and allow to cool 24 hours before inspection.

Respectfully,
Mike Sherman
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Crack problem on welding cast iron

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