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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / AISC certification
- - By bmaas1 (***) Date 06-13-2004 16:00
I began the long process of heading toward AISC certification for my company. Can anybody provide any advice or insight that maight make my job easier in gaining certification.

Brian J. Maas
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 06-14-2004 11:34
Attend one of QMC's "Boot Camps". It is well worth the money, to get an idea of how to get started with this process of writing your quality procedures.
John Wright
Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 06-14-2004 13:18
Hi Brian,

I went through this with two different fabricators. I was fortunate enough to help write the procedures, I got to follow the auditors around, and attended the exit meetings. If you haven't already, get the Quality Certification Kit from the AISC. Included in the kit is the Standard for Steel Building Structures, which in pretty much chronological order covers everything from contract documents to the delivery of the finished product. It also has the Quality Manual Guideline, which is a follow up to the Building Standard. It references each item in the Standard, and offers concepts, interpretations, tips, and quality record examples for them. Also, you will get a copy of the Quality Certification Inspection Evaluation Checklist, based on which category of certification you're applying for. This is the actual audit that will be performed by AISC personnel. On the audit, there are what are regarded as "essential" items, "critical" items, and "non-essential" items. As it states in the Category II Evaluation Checklist, every "essential" item must get a satisfactory score. All but twenty percent of the "critical" items (one if there are less than five critical items in a department) must get a satisfactory score. All but thirty percent of the items that are neither "critical" nor "essential" (three if there are less than ten such items in a department) must get a satisfactory score.
I suggest that you write your procedures based on the actual audit. You don't really need a procedure to cover every single question on the audit. You definitely need procedures to cover the "essential" items, and although you're allowed a percentage of "critical" items, I recommend procedures for them as well. I don't recommend writing procedures for everything else, but you need to make sure that you have the satisfactory percentage covered.
The first time I went through this, was in 1980. We got the kit, wrote all the procedures, did an internal audit, and hired an AISC "consultant" to come in and audit us prior to the actual audit. It was money well spent. He advised us as to whether we needed additional procedures, could do away with some of the ones we had written, etc. The thing to remember when writing your procedures, is that all you really need to do is to satisfy the audit. To me, anything beyond that is absolute overkill. I've seen a lot of AISC Procedure Manuals over the years, and I've seen unnecessary procedures, causing the fabricator to become bogged down with extra paperwork, which in addition causes extra and unnecessary physical work as well. Remember too that anything you write into law has to be followed to the letter, and that it is highly critical to tightly intertwine each related procedure. It is also critical that you leave clean, and totally accurate paper trails. The auditors seem to have a knack for finding these obscure little things that sometimes ordinarily fall through the cracks, and they are able to trace them back to another procedure that hasn't been tied together.
Good luck to you on your certification.
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 06-14-2004 16:54
sw,
Just a note of clarification here. Category I, II, & III were replaced some time ago with Simple and Complex Buildings, and Simple and Major Bridges, with Fracture Critical and Sophisticated Paint Endorsement available.
The Building portion of the program has changed a lot with a new Building "Standard" and there are no more checklists. Simple and Major Bridge still use checklists but will soon will follow the Standard. I had heard that "beta" testing starts in 2005.
Now, the fabricator must develop the mandatory procedures (which they did before) but must address ALL of the "Elements" in the Standard. The auditors are VERY familiar with the new criteria and looks for evidence of compliance.
I can't tell you whether the site audit is easier or not until after July 10 when we wrap up our audit. But I can tell you that there is a lot more attention to detail required for written procedures, having gone through the document review.
From what I have seen of consultants, I have to say check their references first. But you are right in that AISC has a lot of information available the will make the process easier.
And you are right in advising not to put in too much. If you write more, you get audited on more. But be sure to at least cover the minimums or else QMC (Quality Management Co.- auditing agency) will let you know where you fall short.

Chet Guilford
Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 06-14-2004 18:24
Chet/Mark31,

I apologize for the confusion. I just grabbed what was in my AISC Quality Certification file, which contained the 1998 checklist, and started citing reference materials. My current company is not quality certified, so I wasn't aware of the changes. I want our facility to be certified. Our shop is pretty much doing everything we should be doing, and I believe that we wouldn't have any problems, but the office can't seem to get their part under control. They can't even get a drawing transmittal filled out properly. Thanks for the information.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 06-14-2004 18:50
http://www.aisc.org
You will have to click on the Certification link and then on the new Standard link. (for some reason the short cut didn't work correctly)
Scott,
Here is a link to all the hoopla Chet and I have been rambling about.
Interesting reading. I'll leave it at that. I had gotten used to, and had worked the bugs out of the old system, and now I have to grudgenly change over to something new.
John Wright
Parent - By CHGuilford (****) Date 06-14-2004 14:15
We are in the middle of certifying to the "Standard" so I can't tell you our approach is sucessful yet. But I can give you some advice based on what we have encoiuntered so far.

As John said, you really ought to attend a "Boot Camp" as well as other key personnel from your company. There is a tendency to send just the procedure writers or QC but the new criteria weighs heavily on upper management. They really ought to have a good understanding of the process.

Take a good look at the Elements to be sure you understand how your company will comply with them. Remember to keep it as simple as you can but still cover all the requirements.

Decide what format your procedures will be written in and do all the same way. That makes it easier to cross reference everything and to develop your matrix. And you can more easily see where a procedure might cover more that one element, or there might be some "overlap" between procedures to scrub up.

QMC has offered to provide advice, take advantage of that. Ask about anything you are not clear on.

At some point, you won't know what else you should do and might start second guessing your work. That's when you might want to "dive into the deep end" and submit your materials to QMC. Not that they will do your work for you, but that you probably are closer to being done than you think you are. The document review helps feedback from QMC really helps in reassuring you are on the right track.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 06-14-2004 14:42
I'm only guessing, but they must have figured that a lot of fabricators haven't thrown away the ole' "Checklist" and incorporated the new "Standard" yet. Several fabricators that I talked with said that the AISC allowed the audit this year to be a choice of either to the old "Checklist" or to the new"Standard". They said that the "Standard" will have to be in place for next year's audit. I'm still working on ours, I still have a lot of work to do yet. Around here they feel like they have all year to get this completed, then it's audit time before they realize it.
John Wright
Parent - - By ziggy (**) Date 06-15-2004 13:45 Edited 10-29-2009 06:57
I believe Henry Ford said 'Before anything else, getting ready is the key to success.' The first order of business is ensure that top management is behind the process - for the long haul. If they are not you have a long, difficult road ahead of you.
You will be successful by keeping things as simple as possible. At AISC's certification website   http://www.aisc.org/Content/NavigationMenu/AISC_Certification/New!_Building_Standard/New!__Building_Standard.htm

you can download a samply Quality Manual as well as procedures. These are valuable resources.
Remember the ISO mantra "Say what you do, Do what you say"...

ziggy
Parent - - By thcqci (***) Date 06-16-2004 15:08
We are not certified yet although we have prepared most all the documents and are now implementing what the procedures say so we can show that we "do what we say and say what we do". As stated above the AISC website has all the documents and the Standard available for downloading, including sample procedures (that WILL require modification to suit your company). An engineer and I attended and QMC Boot Camp last year in Orlando and the seminar is highly recommended. Not boring and well presented by Ms. Anna Petroski (formerly associated with AWS) and Mr. Terry Logan (WILL keep your attention - funny guy). They make a good team and you will get something out of the seminar. They outline what is "fluff" and what is critical as they go through the Standard word by word.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 06-16-2004 16:44
Doug,
I enjoyed those two instructors also.
Were your M & M's damaged in shipping?:)
John Wright
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / AISC certification

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