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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / welding w/6013 vs. 7018
- - By SteelDet (*) Date 07-13-2004 07:13
I really hope ya'll don't mind rookie questions...from some of the posts I've read (and posted), I trust you don't. (BTW, "ya'll" IS plural). I thought I was pretty good at arc (stick) welding, but today....well I have always, for the most part, used 6013, and I always, well usually, grind away most of the rust, paint or whatever (farmboy type stuff)...(Again)...Anyway I bought some 7018 today...and wow are they different or is it just that I haven't welded in a while? (I did grind the surfaces to remove rust and primer.) I was sticking like a pup and the slag was really hard to get off, it'z like when I chipped it it turned to powder and I had to hit every little place...I'm use to slag coming off in big chunks... What was I doing? I was welding a 1/2" flat bar 6" wide to the bottom of a 5"(vertical) x 2"x1/4" tube. I was using 1/8" 7018 rods and had my Linclon buzz box (A/C) set on 120. I made multiple passes to (finally) get a good flair weld. Then I welded a gusset to each side. The other end of the tube I did the same thing, but switched back to 6013 rods (same setting, but 5/32" rod) and I was back in my old world, good looking weld, easy to do, black slag that comes off in big chunks. Is there really that much difference in welding w/ 7018 vs. 6013 or did I get some wet rods or what??? BTW... Mr. Bud Lite has talked to me a few times before (and while) typing this, but not before or during the welding...not even the night before:)
Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 07-13-2004 14:57
Hi SteelDet,

You mentioned having your buzzbox setting at 120 amps for the 1/8" 7018 rods and using the same setting for 5/32" 6013 rods. The suggested ranges as published by the AWS for 5/32" 6013 is 140-180 amps, and 120-160 amps for 1/8" 7018. Since you're on the low end of the amp range, this may part of the "sticking" problem you mentioned with 7018.
You shouldn't have gotten any wet rods, unless maybe you purchased some from a container that had already been opened, or you left them out too long before using them. Even if you did, I'm not sure that would cause problems with slag removal. I've never used wet rods, so I can only give my opinion. The type of slag produced from 6013 rods is a rutile, or black slag as you indicated, and the 7018 produces a low hydrogen slag, which is harder to remove. In case you're not aware, 7018 rods have low hydrogen coverings and are sold in hermetically sealed containers. Immediately after the opening of the container, the rods are to be stored in an oven held at a temperature of at least 250 degrees Fahrenheit. After removal from the storage ovens, the rods should be placed in a covered container or pouch, and not carried in pockets because exposure to perspiration or other body moisture may cause the coating to absorb moisture and render it useless. The maximum exposure time for 7018 rods is four hours. Rods exposed to the atmosphere for periods less than four hours must be returned to a separate holding oven maintained at a 250 degrees Fahrenheit minimum, and after a period of 4 hours may be reused. In foggy, misty, and rainy weather, or in conditions of high humidity, rods should be kept in a closed container, or pouch, to prevent direct exposure to adverse weather conditions. Absorbed moisture can impair weld quality by causing external porosity. Moisture on the rod can also internal porosity. The only way to detect internal porosity is through x-ray or destructive testing methods. Absorbed moisture can also impair weld quality by causing hydrogen cracking, underbead cracking, or delayed cracking.
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 07-13-2004 16:37
SteelDet,
I think your machine is not right for what you are welding with. When the slag comes off in the manner you described, it often means that you need more power, but not necessarily more amperage.
7018 electrodes run best with a machine that has a higher open circuit voltage than most buzzboxes have. Others can quote the actual numbers better than I can, but that normally means a bigger machine.

As sw mentioned, 7018 electrodes need to be stored in an oven at 250 deg F minimum (actually, sw, I haven't put rods heated to 250 degrees in my back pocket since the first time I tried it :)
If you really need to use low-hydrogen electrodes, I would try some 7018AC (7016) rods. They should work better on your buzzbox than 'normal' 7018 rods will. For home use, you would be better off to purchase rods in small quantities so that you can use them up before they absorb moisture.
Otherwise, I would stick with 6011, 6013, & 7014 rods for your machine. Those rods should handle most home or hobby welding.

Chet Guilford
Parent - By swnorris (****) Date 07-13-2004 17:25
Hi Chet,

Actually, what I meant to say was that rods shouldn't be put in pockets after removing from the container, not the oven. I see guys out on jobsites take rods straight out of the container and put them in their back pockets.
Parent - - By SteelDet (*) Date 07-13-2004 20:09
Thanks, I will take your advice and stay with the other rods for now. I bought those 7018 rods at Northern Tools and they were just sitting on the shelf in a plastic box. Today I am using the 6013's and now the only problem I have is I keep tripping the breaker (30) I guess I'll go get some 1/8" 6013's and maybe a bigger breaker. BTW, I did have the welder set on 150 today, I'll turn it up some more and see what happens.

Can't wait until school starts so I can really learn what I am doing. I have learned a lot reading posts on this board and I appreciate that, even though a lot of it is "over my head" right now.
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 07-13-2004 21:43
SteelDet,
The thing to remember about being in over your head is that you just have to paddle a little harder until you get comfortable with your swimming style. I'm sure you will do just fine.

sw,
I pretty much knew what you meant. I was just remembering my "helper" days when I made a lot of foolish mistakes. (Actually I still do, I just hide them better.)
I remember very well learning about DC polarity. I was sitting on a steel plate getting ready to do some overhead tacking with 7018. I used to pinch the flux to expose the metal, making the arc initiation easier on a partially used rod, because the "stab-n-scratch" method sometimes broke off too much flux. Anyway, my gloves were damp with sweat and I found out I had a small hole in my jeans near my rear pocket. It was amazing to me that I felt the "bite" in my butt and not in the fingers, when using DC reverse current.
Chet
Parent - - By RonG (****) Date 07-14-2004 16:36
Hey Chet, Thats kinda like beating your head against the wall.
It feels so good when you stop.
Parent - By CHGuilford (****) Date 07-14-2004 22:08
It sure does!
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / welding w/6013 vs. 7018

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