Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Fabtrol Experience?
- - By qcmike (**) Date 12-28-2004 20:08
Does anyone have any experience with the Fabtrol MRP Software? If so, do you recommend it? What are the positive and negative aspects of the software? Finally, is it worth the cost?

Thanks for your help.

Mike
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 12-29-2004 21:53
We have gone to Fabtrol. Keeping in mind that my function is QA/QC, the pros and cons seem to be nearly equal, to me.

Our accounting people seem to like it for job costing. Apparently, that is a huge plus. I say apparently because QC is not into that.

Inventory control seems very good, except for the fact that daily usage data entry does not always remove used steel from the "available inventory listing. We don't know if that is because someone failed to click the right button (which I'm not so sure of) or if there is a glitch in the program.

At present, you cannot nest materials from inventory using different grade designations. Example: when nesting A992 beams, the program will not recognize A572 Gr 50 and you cannot enter more than one grade at a time. SDS would do that. I'm told that is being worked on by Fabtrol.

Fabtrol is capable of generating thousands of different reports on inventory. The trouble is figuring out which ones you want and where they are (nothing that more time won't cure).

Currently, there is no way to link a scanned CMTR to the inventory stock item number. I have to maintain a separate data base for that. The salesperson I spoke with seemed to think that the PO number is all you need to prove what the material is and didn't understand the cncept of CMTRs.

I do like the usage reports for job material usage. Very thorough and easy to do once you figure out how to get the info you want. I just wish I could print the CMTRs at the same time.

I am finding project information difficult to get but that is because people aren't entering the data. There are a lot of screens to go through to do that so many don't finish what they start. And it is easy to print too much paper to sort through. Thick reports are impressive but not better than the pertinent info on one or 2 sheets.

But overall, the program has good potential, and should be more valuable as we learn to use it to full advantage. Understand that we had developed our own program that worked with SDS. It was 'rough' but we grew with that, so it was second nature. The problems I have mentioned do have solutions, once we are able to get Fabtrol to understand what we are talking about.

The only thing that really frosted me, (but our bean counters didn't seem to mind) was that we had to purchase an upgrade after 9 months in order to get the features we discovered we need most. Seems to me that with all the attention Fabtrol paid to us to get us to buy, our needs should have been clear. But apparently, that's not how salesmanship works.

Hope that helps,
Chet Guilford

Parent - - By qcmike (**) Date 12-29-2004 22:07
Thanks for the reply Chet. My main duties also are in QA/QC. I am looking for a software that can help in all aspects of fabrication, estimating, purchasing, shop drawing control, scheduling, shipping, and quality control. Fabtrol seems to fit the bill.

The old Fabtrol had an offshoot software called "Traceability". That software would link scanned MTR's. Pretty slick and useful. However, the new MRP doesn't support it anymore. It's too bad, the old software was pretty neat from what the salesman showed. Enter a heat number and the MTR would pop up on the screen for printing or adding to a transmittal for distribution. Great time saver.

They just installed a new digital copier with high speed scan capabilities. I am struggling with an acceptable method to data base each scan by size, grade, heat, job, USA, etc. I understand there is pretty good OCR (scan reading) software out there. I'm just not sure how good it would work with the industry standard faxed MTR's. Some of those copies are pretty poor as you know.

Do you have any experience with Microsoft Access data base software? I heard it might be a useful tool.

Talk to you later,

Mike
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 12-29-2004 23:24
I made a MTR/Document Database that could load file/path info into a hyperlink field and if the items was a tif, jpg, or BMP, it would display a thumbnail.

The rest of the data can then be related whether it be a PO Line number, weld, system, etc.

Access is very useful as is any other relational database.

There are some screenshots of a demo I did for a question on another forum at http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com/DwgTrackingDemo/drawing_tracking_example.htm .

NOTE: The 1st image you see has a startup form. Click near one of the buttons and it will bring you to the corresponding form.

The download expired on the 7th but if you are interested, I can send you the .mdb file without expiration. It probably will not fit your needs but may give you an idea of what you can do.

Many of the commercial products are built on an Access or foxpro back end with a visual basic or access front end.

Hope this helps

Gerald Austin
Iuka Mississippi
Parent - - By qcmike (**) Date 12-30-2004 12:44
Send me the file. I would like to check it out. My e-mail is mjulian@tuckermansteel.com.

Thanks for the help.

Mike
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 12-30-2004 15:45
Gerald has more info for you than I can offer. All I do for CMTR tracking is to enter information in spreadsheet, with job#, PO#, quantity, material size and length, grade & type, date received, etc. The CMTR and shipping ticket are given the line number as a page number, and they go into 3 ring binders.

When I need to pull copies of CMTRs, I sort the spread sheet by whatever info I need and get a list of page numbers. The rest is manual photocopying.

I haven't received good scanning equipment yet, but when I do my intent is to scan the documents and add a hyperlink column to the spread sheet.
Chet
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 12-30-2004 16:13
The company I did this for had a high speed copier that sent the docs to a PDF file on their server. We never got it finalized as the project ended.

One advantage of using access was the fact it was easy to integrate with the weld tracking database and document review database that I had already done.

A heat number was related to a MTR . The heat nuber was also related to a weld. The weld is related to a line and the line to a system blah blah blah. That way there was a minimum amount of redundant data and reports could be generated in various ways by just preparing the query.

If you keep the data in a standard column and row spreadsheet the data can then be reported on and used in other ways with access.

Have a good day

GA
Parent - By DouglasCochrane Date 06-22-2006 16:42
FYI, Traceability was a Canadian company that developed the Traceability software. It was a pretty nice product that allowed you to scan an MTR and store it in a database. There were good filters and search capabilities on the database. FabTrol developed an integration that allowed Traceability to run within the inventory management part of FabTrol.

Unfortunately Traceability (the company) flamed out rather quickly and the product died. FabTrol tried to buy the technology but got outbid. It has not developed technology to replace this functionality.
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 02-07-2005 23:26
I just wanted to add a clarification and an apology. I had said that Fabtrol didn't pay attention to our needs and that an upgrade was sold to us after 9 months, after the program was installed. I was misinformed about the actual situation.

We did not have to pay for an upgrade, it was part of our service agreement with Fabtrol, and was in response to suggestions and requests from us and other Fabtrol customers.

Fabtrol has contacted me in regards to my comments, wishing only to assure me that they do not conduct business in a manner to simply try to sell more software. They are in the business to sell software, but make a tremendous effort to provide training, performance, and devote a lot of time and energy to customer satisfaction. They try to be progressive and respond to the industry's needs as well as the individual customers, realizing there are as many different ways of managing a company as there are individual companies. I have seen their responsiveness first hand.

So with that, I apologize to Fabtrol and anyone who may have been misled by my comments in the last paragraph of my earlier post. Fabtrol did not threaten or try to solicit my apology, I simply feel that this is the right thing to do.

Chet Guilford


Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 06-23-2006 10:53 Edited 06-23-2006 10:59
Some of the previous posts were from 2004.  We use Fabtrol, but this post has nothing to do with Fabtrol.  I just thought it might be worthwhile to note that for those of you who are required to fabricate within the parameters of the AISC's COSP, the 2005 edition has revised requirements on the identification and traceability of materials.  Starting with identification and traceability with the least degree of difficulty, the three stages of identification are: (1) shop standard grade materials, (2) materials other than shop standard grade, and (3) materials ordered in accordance with an ASTM supplement or other special material requirements.  Item (1) requires that a list be made of what the fabricator deems to be shop standard grade materials, which would be their most commonly used shapes and grades.  For those materials, the only identification/traceability requirement is shape designation, supported by a single "representative" MTR for each shape/grade deemed a shop standard.  This representative MTR doesn't have to match the actual material in terms of heat number, just the shape and material grade.  The identification/traceability requirement for Item (2) requires shape designation, and material grade, supported by a "representative" mill test reports based on those two requirements.  The identification/traceability requirements for item (3) are shape designation, material grade, and heat number, all of which are supported by matching MTR's.
These identification requirements were intended to help the fabricator, particularly Item (1), which will suffice for most of the work that we do.  Most engineers I've talked to were not aware of these changes, and were still requiring "matching" MRT's on their projects.  I wrote a letter that we send out when we get new work that explains these changes and asks for approval to proceed on their project using our shop standard grade materials.  So far, we have not been turned down.  Our identification system and only maintaining one representative MTR for each shape we stock as shop standard grade material is so much easier for us, so after a trial period, I revised our materials procurement and receiving procedures to take advantage of this.  We have a June 29th audit, and I'm anxious to find out how what the auditor thinks of it.                 
Parent - - By jbottger Date 07-10-2006 20:01
We are in the process of applying to be an AISC certified fabricator.  It was my understanding in reading through the certification requirements that we must review MTR's as we receive material (and therefore we must ask our vendors to submit MTR's) however, we are not required to keep the MTR's (however, we have decided to keep them since we have them).  I am curious to know what your audit results were.  Are your current practices acceptable???  I am logging heat numbers into Fabtrol (since I've got them), but it does take up a lot of time.
Parent - By swnorris (****) Date 07-10-2006 21:00
Material identification was one of the elements that we were audited on.  The auditors stated that we were the first fabricator they had audited that is using the latest material identification criteria.  Overall, we had no CAR's and no major concerns.  You are correct that you are required to review MTR's as you receive materials (5.2.2 in the COSP).  At the very minimum, you really need to keep MTR's so that you can prove to the auditors that you are receiving materiaI shapes and grades in accordance with contract documents and specifications, and you can verify that someone has reviewed the MTR's by having them place their initials on them.  You may also want to consider keeping them and maintaining identification on the materials, because if you have a job that requires matching MTR's, you will be able to utilize your stock inventory, rather than purchasing everything that must be supported by matching MTR's.  Another reason to keep your MTR's is that you will have to submit them to the owners rep (usually a third party inspector) upon request.  Good luck on getting all your MTR's from your suppliers.  The mills do a good job, but the service centers are more difficult.   
Parent - By CHGuilford (****) Date 07-11-2006 16:44
Actually, you don't have to review MTR's at the time of receiving, but you can choose to do it at that time if you want to.  You do have to verify that the materials are correct for the job prior to using them in production.  It sounds the same but the difference is the time frame when you verify materials.  It is good practice to review materials at the time of delivery, or shortly after, and to do it as part of your receiving process.  But be careful about writing a procedure that will not allow leeway for unusual situations.

Because we also do bridge work, we maintain heat numbers on everything that comes with them and scan the MTR's into a file. 
All of our material is unloaded into a "quarantine" area and held until the PO, MTR's, and delivery slips are checked; then it is marked with the stock item number and moved to a designated area.  The heat number is logged into the Fabtrol Stockmiser with the other information.

Sometimes, steel is ordered as "cheap, black, and sinks in water" and no MTRs are needed.  If we have them, we still put the heat #s into Fabtrol - just in case.  We have occasionally been able to contact the mill for MTR's when we wanted to use the material for something other than what it was originally ordered for.

Prior to pulling job material from inventory, the documentation is revewed (2nd time) and a visual check is made of the material stock numbers, heat numbers and mill markings to be sure everything matches up.  This sounds more involved and time consuming than it actually is, and it has prevented mistakes on many occasions.

The Code of Standard Practice is a 2 edged sword that has to be applied carefully. 
Under 5.1.1, ASTM specifies the testing required and markings that identify the materials when ordered for a job.  If no MTRs are required by contract, verifying the correct mill markings could be all the fabricator needs to do.  However, how do you prove you have done the check unless you document that somehow, or have that built into your procedure? The easiest record to explain to the outside world is the MTR that matches the steel's heat number.

5.2.2 addresses materials a fabricator has in stock.  Notice that certified mill test reports shall be reviewed and retained to cover the stock material. 
I think the next part is what confuses everyone- it says the "Fabricator need not maintain records that identify individual pieces of stock material against individual certified mill test reports, provided the Fabricator purchases stock materials that meet requirements for material grade and quality in the applicable ASTM specifications." 
Nice thought, but if need be, how will anyone prove it without MTRs from the mill?  Again, you can review mill markings and record a check to comply with this, or receive a C of C from the supplier.  I think it is a poor practice to say "the material is OK because our PO says to send only good stuff."  You also have to be careful of grade 50 steels being substituted as equal to or better than A36; some customers might not agree.

6.1.1 (a) also contributes to the confusion.  To me "Representative mill test reports" means a document that records the results of testing performed for that particular heat and size range of steel.  It means the MTR represents THAT steel heat.  It does not mean that a MTR for A36 of one heat represents A36 of any other heat number. 

The best argument our shop has for our method of material control is that almost every vendor we have ever dealt with has made mistakes at one time or another.  We have been embarrassed by failing to notice angles with foreign roll marks hidden inside bundles of USA origin material until after we cut it up for a job.  A529 has been supplied several times as "equal" to A709-50, without the vendor calling us first.  Material sizes have been delivered that were close to but not quite what we ordered.  It is not that we haven't made our mistakes either but our customers hold us responsible, not our steel suppliers.

We have been AISC certified for about 14 years.  Our initial audit to the new Building Standard, combined with Major Bridges, FC, and SPE returned no CAR's. 
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Fabtrol Experience?

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill