AISC Designation and Prequation info

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 01-31-2005 20:05

I am not an AISC expert and will be the first to admit it however (fellow forum members correct me if I'm wrong) I believe you can use D1.1 for the prequalification designation and information. Do you have access to an AWS D1.1? If you need some specific information drop me an e-mail and I'll see if I can help.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 01-31-2005 20:06

Hi Mike,
I think what they are asking for is a "prequalified" full penetration weld. This is a weld that can be completed without qualifying a procedure first to prove that it will work. There are examples of these different "prequalified" joint designations in AWS D1.1 Structural Steel Welding code(AWS has already proven these to work, if followed). Section 3 (page 57) of this code specifies what criteria you must meet for the welded joint be considered a "prequalifed" status. If you have a copy of D1.1 :2004, the prequalified CJP details start on page 88 of Figure 3.4.
This should get you started in the right direction. If you need more assistance, post again with more info about the joint type, position, welding process to be used and etc.
John Wright

By MikeZ Date 01-31-2005 20:44

Thank you so much. Correct me if I’m wrong. As I understand it now we should get our hands on the D1.1 and submit the copy of one of the full penetration joint drawings or specs from the book.

By thcqci

Date 01-31-2005 20:32

As the GC with the liability on your head, you may want to consider finding a subcontractor who knows what that means. I'm all for giving people a chance to compete for work, but that is sort of basic for someone performing CJP welds on structural work. You may want to consider the qualifications of this sub. If you do allow them to perform the work, they will need written welding procedure(s) and certified welders also. Also consider hiring a CWI and/or an independent testing agency to provide guidance and/or NDE (more than likely required on a CJP weld anyway).

By MikeZ Date 01-31-2005 21:04

Thank you for your comment. You are right of course. I hope they know what they’re doing. I know they use certified welders.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 01-31-2005 21:23

Yes, I would at a min. get my hands on a copy of that book(D1.1:2004[latest] or what ever edition the contract docs specify). As already stated a CWI should already know what is required and can give some guidance. Also stated, written welding procedures need to be completed and submitted "by the fabricator" along with copies of the fabricator's welder certification papers for the personnel performing the welds on this job. Most of this should have been submitted and taken place before the first weld is made in the fabricator's shop. Most jobs that we are awarded, I have to submit all of our paperwork as a submission for approval, just like detail drawings, or calculations from our in-house engineer.
John Wright

By thcqci

Date 02-01-2005 13:04

No offense meant. You stated above you have no experience with steel. These welders that are certified... certified to what procedure(s)? Your sub may be fine, but I am suspicious. Certified welders are certified to weld using certain procedures using certain processes in certain positions to sometimes limited thicknesses. In my experience, when someone tells you "Oh yea, I use certified welders", you better look to see what they are certified to weld. They may be perfectly competent and qualified welders, but if you don't have correct paperwork for the welds to be made, it means nothing. Find a competent CWI to help you. You will come out better in the long run and further, be confident in the work that has been performed when you have the knowledge of just what it takes to perform competent work. You may learn if this is something you want to tackle again in the future and how to price a project like this for what it is worth. Wish you well in what ever decisions you make.

Feel free to jump in this forum and ask more questions. There are no dumb questions (unless you don't ask it).

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 02-01-2005 13:19

Mike, to be on the safe side, you may want to hire a Certified Welding Inspector (CWI) as a consultant, at least until things get kicked off just so you know you're getting off to a good start! It will be your company who is responsible for calling out the appropriate joint designations and applicable weld procedures; a CWI can guide you in this information but likely will inform you that his/her guidance is simply that, guidance. By the way, I can't see your location but there may be numerous other issues that come up especially if you live or work in California!

By gkcwi

Date 02-01-2005 13:42

Are you sure that this project doesn't require AISC steel shop certifcation? I would check with the EIC just to be safe. If it does require a AISC certified shop, I doubt the steel sub you hired has the certifcation reqiured. Would hate to see you get the whole job fab'd and find out that the whole thing is rejected because it was supposed to be fab'd by a cert'd shop. You may be able to see language in the spec's to give you a better idea what is going on, look under STEEL FABRICATION in the general contract spec's.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 02-01-2005 14:00

To add a note onto what gkcwi stated, Structural Steel is usually marked or indicated as "section 5120" of the structural specs.
John Wright