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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Sumerged Arc Welding Using Ceramic Backi
- - By miguel P (*) Date 02-08-2005 19:40
We are trying to develop a WPS for welding groove welds on thickness up to 100 mm. For this, we beveled a plate (double V groove, Groove angle=60, nose=0, gap=2 mm. Thickness=38 mm) and put under plate a Round ceramic Backing (23 mm diameter). If you can see the configuration go to Gullco web page.

We used the following electric parameters: Amperage= 500 – 550 Amp, Voltage = 29 – 31v; speed travel = 18 – 26 cm/min. Electrode diameter = 4 mm.

Resulf of the test: Severe centerline cracking!!!!!!!!

I preheated the plate until 160 celsius degrees and the problem still continue.

I am looking for opinions of someones who have been involved in this cases.
Thanks
Regards.
MP
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 02-08-2005 19:54
Here is a theory I have based on what I have read http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com/COncaveWeld.htm It may be some help.

Have a nice day
Gerald Austin
Parent - By GRoberts (***) Date 02-08-2005 20:24
If you are melting through to the round backing, in a V-groove weld joint, it seems like you would have a very high depth to width ratio, which promotes cracking. Have you been able to cross-section the weld to measure this? If this is the case, you may want to switch to a U-groove so that the backing would be closer to the root of the weld and not penetrate through so much, or switch to the triangular backing. Also, the diameter of the ceramic seems very large. It is unclear to me exaclty your joint is configured to use such large ceramic backin.
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 02-08-2005 23:12
Just a few thoughts... You mentioned a double vee groove. To me that means a 2 sided weld. If that is what you meant, then I don't understand the reason for the ceramic backing, unless there is insufficient root face and too much root opening. If that is the case, I would think you would have better results in leaving a 6mm (minimum)root face with zero or very little root opening. I would bevel the second side to 40 degrees because after backgouging, 30 degrees will usually be too narrow for good fusion unless the groove is opened up more. For that reason, I like to bevel the first side to about 60% of the depth and the second side the remainder less the face dimension. That way backgouging doesn't have to go further than to the halfway of the thickness.

Another thought is that we usually run 675 to 750 amps with that wire size, with the same voltages, and between 35 - 50 cm/min. (I am assuming carbon steel) Your parameters seem low in overall heat input but I'm not sure of your application.

I too am thinking that your depth to width ratio is not correct.
Especially if you are welding a double vee groove with round backing and are melting to the backing. 23mm diameter backing would leave a large void at the other side of the root. If you must use that configuration, you might want to consider using flux held in place with a bar for a backing instead of the ceramic, or at least somehow using flux to exclude air at the root. Combined with adequate root opening and face, you should be able to be good results.

More preheat did not solve the problem for us when we had problems with centerline cracking.

A U groove was also suggested. Those take more time and money to prepare that simple vee grooves but good results can be obtained with them. Time spent on the preparation could prevent spending a greater amount of time on rework.

Hope this helps,

Chet Guilford
Parent - By miguel P (*) Date 02-10-2005 19:43
Thanks for yours post.
We are trying to weld with Ceramic backing because we don`t want to grinding the joint root before welding second side. we are handling plates with 100 mm thickness and 2200 mm width. Our joint configuration is B-U3c-S. You are rigth when mentioned the width-heigth relation because there is like a triangle area too large to fill. I think that weld pool is huge to fill this void, but if we reduce welding parameters the gap isn`t fill correctly. That`s the problem.

We request a triangle backing and soon we will testing it. I will comment the results.

The U joint configuration is improper in our case. This require expensive preparation.

We used the 1G-25RD (isn`t especified in gullco web site)

Miguel P
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-09-2005 12:33
http://www.gullco.com/products/katbak/katbak.htm

Are you using the 1G20-RD backing? On the site it says...
"These tiles are for similar uses as the 1G6-RD but for thicker plates up to 15mm thick",
and you stated you have joints up to 100mm thick and the 38mm plate that you tried has centerline cracked.

Maybe you need to try the triangular backing as suggested earlier and adjust your groove angles to allow for the correct width to depth ratio.
Here is what the site had to say about the triangular backing.....

"All 1G33 tiles are suitable for K or X preps where the bevel angles are 45, 60 or 90 degrees. Also suitable for welding with M.I.G./M.A.G. solid wire, metal cored or flux cored wires. They are a substitute for round tiles where the benefit of the 1G33 range of tiles is a "full-face" contact with the joint preparation... reducing the risk of burn-through as may occur with the round tiles where you have a single point contact of the tile with the work piece. 1G33-90 also used when reverse side of a single bevel, single V butt joint where the reverse angle will always be 90°."

John Wright

Parent - By metalcare (*) Date 02-14-2005 16:47
Some of my thoughts on the issue:
a) I am not sure what polarity you are using, DCEN could provide improved results.

b) You may quick check the material test reports for any excessive sulphur content.

c) Increasing Preheat / Interpass temperature might improve the results which reduces the weld metal cooling rate.

Muthu
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