welder trianing

Date 03-31-2005 14:04

An employer can exceed code requirements all he wants to. The purpose of the welder test to prove that the welder can weld. When you crawl under the pipe, that is all that matters. You could be the best at leadership and have 4 degrees but if you can't make the weld it won't matter. I suggest you try some of these test before you decide how simple they are. When the hood drops the B S stops.
Andy

By jamesrodr (*)

Date 03-31-2005 16:12

Johanes
You wont pass the test if you do not know how to weld . If you have enough skill only then you will come up to the minimum standards required and that comes only with practise and experience. Welding in 1G and welding in 6GR position is like starting school at First Grade ( 1G )and passing out of High school ( 6GR).

By limeynorm Date 04-01-2005 23:18

I assume youre reference to a coded welder means a welder certified to a specific code. A certification is a welder qualification test to a specific standard. To become qualified to a particular standard one needs the skills to pass the practical test of his/her ability. the skills may be developed at a training facilllity or on the job.
A welder may be certified to weld under a number of codes qualifying in simple skills like tack welding or advanced skills such as tig or pipe welding.
The skills required by a given company may involve welder qualification and other considerations such as blueprint reading, operating machines etc.
these days a good welder must be certified/qualified and be able to perform other related duties.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 04-02-2005 09:42

Hi Johannes!
This thread sonds like some of the semantics used are coming from the European or British side of the "POND"... Am I correct Limeynorm?

This is why you're are getting some answers that may not make sense or incorrectly be construed as being offensive...
The way things are said or written, usually are interpreted differently on this side of the "POND" - even though the same language is used on both sides of the "POND"!!! Believe me you!!! I've been on both sides.

Nonetheless, I would recommend that you visit either a Boilermakers or Pipefitters/Steamfitters local area training facility if one is close by, and if you're on this side of the "POND"... Then you could find out for yourself by asking one of the instructors as many questions you'd like to within reason. They're usually very helpful in steering you in the right direction with regards to your questions. Another place that might be helpful would be to visit a local community or technical college and "pick the brain" of the senior welding instructor and have them show you some of the actual practical tests required, observe their best students weld, then you could get a better all around picture in your head and see for yourself whether or not the tests or skills required still seem fairly simple...
Another suggestion would be to look in the B to B or yellow pages and see if you can locate any Welding/pipe fabrication companies that work to ASME section IX and ask them if you can see for yourself how simple these tests are to someone that is'nt a welder, what other skills are required and finally what scope of knowledge is required the perform the work. I believe you'll get some interesting answers... Good Luck!

Respectfully,
SSBN727
Run Silent... Run Deep!!!

By johannes (*)

Date 04-04-2005 12:45

Thank you for the reply. My choice of words were probably not correct, English is not my first language.

We do a lot of welder testing and use ASME IX as our guideline. During shutdowns we make use of contract welders, and not all of them received any form of formal welder training. A lot of them do not pass the test required by ASME. However a lot of welders, even those without any type of training, do pass the tests, and is then qualified to work on site as per ASME requirements. But as soon as you start interviewing these “coded welders” you realize that the do not know how to apply proper preheat, do not know ho to handle low hydrogen consumables, and does not understand the WPS, to name a few examples. For me, there is a lot more to welding, and proper training is required. Demonstrating that you can deposit weld metal, and pass an X-ray test, even though it takes considerable skills in the 6G position, does not necessarily indicate that the person can be considered a proper tradesman. That why I would like to know what the requirements in the US or UK will be before allowing a person to weld on pressure vessels.

Joe

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 04-04-2005 15:32

Hi Joe,
You can adopt additional training requirements as an employer, that would require that the welder would need to know these items before considering them for the job. Add a written test to go along with the performance test. I am seriously considering that here also, when hiring from outside of our company. I already give all this training for people moving into these welding/fitting positions from within our company.
Knowing this information and how to apply it to their job is very important.
John Wright

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 04-05-2005 00:27

Hi Joe!

I have to agree with John wholeheartedly!!!

So let me get this straight; You say that you test them first, then you interview them? if this is correct then, you should first interview, and provide a written test to find out whether or not the candidate has the required experience and knowledge in order to perform their duties...

Now mind you, the test should'nt be one that is made up of questions that only an engineer or technician with instant access to reference materials could be capable of answering correctly...

The AWS S.E.N.S.E. program has I believe three categories or levels of written tests for welders... They are: Entry level, Advanced and Expert level. Contact the AWS Education Product Development department:
Director Chris Pollock.. cpollock@aws.org or call the main number and connect to extension 219.

You can also look at the AWS WeldAcademy by visiting:
http://www.weldacademy.com for an online training course that might interest you.

Finally for the USA, you could do a search for the NCCER (Sorry for not having their website at hand but, I will include it later)training materials and there you could get more info regarding some of the training requirements necessary to become employable for work as a "Qualified welder" as we say here in the good old US of A... Oh yeah, I almost forgot, The Hobart Institute of Welding Technology may be able to assist you in the appropiate training materials for either inhouse training or whatever you plan on starting.

Now as far as the UK is concerned, get in touch with The Welding Institue or TWI and thet should be able to better assist you...
If you do'nt find any help there then, post an inquiry in the UK welding forum... you should get some good responses there. Now I do'nt remember their website offhand but, if you do a google or yahoo search, I'm sure you'll find it...

May I ask what country you're enquiring from?

Respectfully,
SSBN727
Run Silent... Run Deep!!!

By andy

Date 04-05-2005 07:46

As indicated by SSBN, try these links:

http://www.twi.co.uk/j32k/protected/band_3/jk39.html

http://www.ukwelder.com/forum/index.php?act=idx

Regards

Andy

By johannes (*)

Date 04-06-2005 10:35

I am from S. Africa. We generally do not interview welders and use the ASME test as the basis. It is sometimes difficult to explain that a welder can be qualified but not coded, or coded but not qualified. We have a lot of unemployed people in this country but strangely we sometimes ran short of qualified welders. As I have argued previously, being able to pass the ASME tests, demonstrate that you have the desired hand skill, but unfortunately does not say anything about your prior training as a welder. So this is central to the problem, do you only train people to pass the ASME test or do you train them to understand more of the complexities involved in welding and includes an apprenticeship. Obviously the time required will differ significantly and you must build a proper business case why something in excess of the ASME codes is required.

Joe

By medicinehawk (**)

Date 04-08-2005 08:31

To me, you are using the term (coded welder) where it is assuming and missleading. If you are doing code work and you are considering hiring an individual (to weld) who has passed per ASME IX than you are all set. A person who has to takes that test & passes is certainly has the manual skills to do code work, but it's up to the manufacturer to set up & maintain the protocol for the code work to be performed.
I have done plenty of code work and it requires an active QA/QC to make sure the paper work is ready along with the materials & procedures required for the particular job. It is not up to the welder to dig up and make sure all the materials have the proper paper work. Some individuals may have the welding skills to do code work,but haven't been exposed to the paperwork required in code welded fabrications. Not a big deal if the QA manager is doing their job as it is up to them to explain it to the parties involved. Code work takes more time and money to produce a product, but it practically guarentees that it was built with a higher standard.
The welding industry for pipe fabrications anyway welds to a code (usually ASME) so that also guarentees quality , but may not be considered "code work" per se.
The point I am getting to is that there are highly skilled professionals who have never done coded work, but certainly can.
Code work is nothing more that documentation of a weldment from start to finish. It still requires skilled hands to make it happen.

By jamesrodr (*)

Date 04-08-2005 15:15

Johannes,

I am now able to understand your point. The ASME and other codes are used to certify the welders on their practical skill. The welded coupons are evaluated on whether the discontinuties in them if any are within the limits set by the code. They do not ask you to check the welders theorotical knowledge.
Preparing the WPS , getting it qualified and ensuring that it is followed is the job of the welding engineer , supervisor and inspector. Basically no one expects the welder to know anything more than follow the qualified WPS. In India we have a system where the welder is trained for one year where they have to study theory as well as practicals. Such welders do know the basic theory but to be a coded welder he has to pass the practical test as per the code. There are welders who do not attend school and do not know any theory but their practical skill is so good that they can pass the test easily.