Slag on Puddle Welds

Date 05-31-2005 20:56

Looks like one bad CWI is trying to make the rest of us look bad.The only right answer is slag must be removed before the welds are inspected. Sure wish I knew who the CWI was that passed welds with slag on them. There has got to be some way to report him/her to the AWS. I wonder if the AWS can make him/her a former CWI. Maybe if the AWS would start revoking certifications it would be easier on the rest of us.

Tell the company inspecting welds with slag removed is $10.00 an hour cheaper than inspecting welds that the inspector must clean.

By swnorris (****)

Date 05-31-2005 21:19

It is not the inspectors responsibility to clean welds so that he can check them. It is the welders responsibility to remove the slag from his welds so that they can BE checked. I'm all for high productivity, but geez! For one thing, how does a welder really know if his welds meet minimum code requirements if he doesn't clean and look at each weld? Does he wait for the inspector to remove the slag and then tell him he has a problem? Quality should be built into the job, not inspected into it.

By mksqc

Date 05-31-2005 21:24

it might just be me but in my shop the welder is the first to inspect his\her welds (its a pride in there work thing) and they cannot see the weld if they dont clean it.but the money thing that you might want to mention to your client is if your cwi is cleaning all the welds isnt it going to be very expencive to repair welds that would haver been repaird if the welder saw the flaws in the first place?

By QCCWI

Date 05-31-2005 22:07

Most of the time Hawkeye the welder makes the weld then Stevie Wonder the welder removes the slag. That is probably why the company does not want the welders to clean them.Why pay a man to clean a weld he/she is not going to look at in the first place.

By RonG

Date 06-01-2005 12:10

Pretty high handed string going here.

Do you go out to inspect welds or the managment? Its there money, who are you to tell them how to spend it?

I really belive the managers have a better grip on how they want things run than any you.

By QCCWI

Date 06-01-2005 13:19

I am the Quality Control Manager in a steel fabrication shop. I inspect welds daily. The welds I inspect are passed or failed based on AWS D1.1 not on how much money is made or lost.I sign my name on the reports saying the welds are up to code. If the President of the company I work for wants to come into my shop and pass welds that I fail that is up to him. He will sign the reports saying the welds are good not me. It may be his company and his money but it is my pride in doing my job and my self respect that get me to do my job right. If management wants to sacrifice quality to save money then I can say I am working for the wrong company and the company has the wrong Quality Control Manager. The problem is some company management believes they have a grip on what is right,but mention something like FEMA 353 and they don't have a clue. Bottom line is good quality work will make you more money in the long run than it cost you. Sure I could pass bad welds today and this company could make losts of money but what happens in 6 months when this company can not get a job because of it. I always get the blame if quality work is making this company money it is because of good quality control.If this company is not making money blame good quality control. If upper management does not like how I do my job let them try it for a while and see how good they can do it.

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 06-01-2005 15:26

Miwini; I believe QCCWI said it completely. There is no other answer EXCEPT that all welds must be completely cleaned prior to inspection.

I've been a CWI myself now for almost 25 years (now a Senior CWI) and I can say occassionally we all might miss a weld or two with slag remaining, but that certainly doesn't justify the situation! As for those other Inspectors who either clean the weld themselves or don't care whether the weld is clean before inspecting all I can say is they should not be inspecting welds.

By RonG

Date 06-01-2005 15:34

The point being.

If they want to pay a CWI to clean prior to inspection what do you care if they pay by the hour? The way I read the first post was a person who didn't want to clean was replaced with some one who would.

I never seen any thing about signing inferior work as acceptable or sacrificing quality.

Rest assured, when you try to do your job as if it were your own company, some one will step up and show you, it is not.

By QCCWI

Date 06-01-2005 16:00

The point is if a person does not want to clean his/her welds that person would not be a welder in my shop or on my job.If pride alone in his/her work is not a good enough reason to clean your own welds then that person should not be allowed to weld. If the owner does not have the guts to tell his/her employee to do his/her job(clean welds),he/she is wrong if he/she thinks I am going to do the job he/she is scared to make his/her employee do.The owner can hire someone just like him/her. I can see the ad now wanted CWI WITH NO BACKBONE-MUST BE ABLE TO LAYDOWN AND CRAWL WHEN I SAY SO. That tells me I need not apply. Anyway I would like to know where the jobs sites are that don't require the welders to clean thier own welds. I could send a couple of non slag removing want to be welders to see them so they will stop coming by my shop begging for another chance to work in my shop.But then agian they might have come from a job like that. Oh by the way when this CWI checks weld that are cleaned I look at the weld and ask myself would I want my kids living/working/walking in a building with that weld in it. If the answer is NO then you guessed it that weld fails.

Only a person with the IQ of a rock would want to pay an weld inspector to clean welds. Lets see one weld inspector checking behind 15 welders. It would just make the weld inspector stay on the job longer.If it took 15 welders 15 minutes a peice to clean the welds they run and it would take the weld inspector 5 hours to clean and inspect the welds that could have been Inspected in 2 hours had the welds been cleaned. Based on the rate of pay for a welder versus the rate of pay for a CWI how much money did the company save. My math tells me they would be losing money.

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 06-01-2005 16:14

RONG: I think the point is this; how would the welder have any idea of the quality of his/her work if they didn't first clean it off to look at it themselves? All too often I have found crater cracks in the weld puddle only to have to call the welder back to fix the problem. I see this issue being much deeper than just expecting an inspector to clean the welds... Further, almost every code I have worked with REQUIRED the welds to be completely cleaned after welding and, (this part is just an opinion) cleaning of the welds is a craft function whether it be the welder or the welders helper.

By RonG

Date 06-02-2005 16:58

All I am saying is you hire on to do a job not run the company. You are not involved with any thing other than the job in front of you.

No one has been ask to compromise any thing, so whats up with all this pride and self respect? "Only some one as dumb as a rock" would invite some one in to his house and ask them to tell them how to spend or manage their affairs and their money. You sure as hell would not because you so full of self respect. How you can amagine any one else thinking they know how to handle things.

Try some of these speaches on your employer and get their take on it. After all they only own or run a buisness that you are only an employee of.

Well you got me on the one about not knowing if he put in a quality weld if he/she didn't clean it. He/she needs to find another line of work because they can see the weld takeing place and they already know before the slag ever hardens. The thing is they generaly don't have the luxury or time to ponder about fixing it. Thats why they have CWI's. But I guess maybe if they did all that we could let all the CWI's go home and they will take care of it them selfs.

Take pride in what you do, not in what you think some one else should do.

By QCCWI

Date 06-02-2005 18:58

Ok Ron I think you work in a welding shop. So lets say OSHA walks in to your shop and tell you it is a mess and needs to be cleaned up because the OSHA inspector deems it unsafe. Are you going to hire a cleaning crew to come in and clean up behind your welders or are you going to make your welders do it? I bet you would run to the owner of the company and ask him/her what he wants?

My point is if the owner wants a maid to clean up behind his/her welders.Then he/she needs to hire a maid. If he/she wants a weld inspector to inspect welds he/she can hire me.

I also think you have had outside inspectors(CWIs) inspect you shop and the CWI did not like what he/she saw. You think a CWI should fix what he finds wrong instead of telling you that it is wrong.

Remember nobody is perfect.

By QCCWI

Date 06-02-2005 18:59

By the way did I mention that I was nobody. Just kidding.

By thcqci

Date 06-02-2005 19:08

WOW!!! I can tell you get along well with the QA/QC Department you interact with. Or maybe, the CWI has no backbone and just crawls around. Where do we begin? I have heard the arguement before that you don't need to chip slag because you already know what the weld looks like while it is being welded. Poppycock!!! You may have an idea what you will see when you chip the slag based upon experience, feel, sound, etc., but there are countless discontinuities that may be found when you look at the finished product. And since there are physical size and profiles to consider, they must be seen to be quantified and verified. Welders always have the time to make a weld right. It takes significantly more time to come back to fix something once they have left it than to just fix what they see when they chip the slag. In my view, the CWI is there to verify that the weld was deposited correctly and is acceptable based upon the criteria specified, NOT to play detective trying to find all the crap that a welder may leave behind, hoping that the inspector will pass it. If that is all you expect from your welders, then you should rethink your position and increase your welder training. You are costing your company money. A welder should be adequately trained to know what an acceptable weld looks like according to the acceptance criteria he is welding to and be able to judge his weld to that criteria. He should fix it when it does not meet that criteria before he presents it to an inspector for verification. If all are doing their job efficiently, there should be close to zero rejected welds by the inspector.

As a CWI, I carry a chipping hammer because I expect there will be minor touchups I see when inspecting and it is easier to do that myself than to mark, document it, find someone else to fix it, and go back to reinspect. That I don't want to chip slag is not a pride thing. It IS the responsibility of the welder to perform the initial VT. That can only be done if the weld has been adequately cleaned. When I am doing more than minor removal of spatter or slag, I address it with the welder. I go up the food chain until I get the proper attention required. Our welders know what is expected of them.

And, if my boss came to me and asked me to do the cleaning of the welds for the welder, I would definitely have trouble with that and we would discuss that further. See above comments. If he still did not see it the other way, I would know I was working at the wrong place and it would be time to test the free agency market.

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 06-02-2005 20:08

some horses just aren't worth beating... nuff said from this side...

By RonG

Date 06-03-2005 13:59

You can carry this on till Dooms day but it still boils down to the fact that management may not always be right but they are the management and what are you gonna do about that? You do what they want or go else where. That makes this just a bunch of rhetoric.

By BF

Date 06-06-2005 13:35

Years ago I worked in So Cal in building construction and had a problem with the decking crew not wanting to make repairs or clean welds. First I went to the welding foreman and got no where, next I went to the job superintendent and got some support, finally I called the building dept and asked for the chief inspector. When it was all done and said everyone on the job knew if I said clean it or fix it they either did it or the job would be shut down if I had to make another phone call. After the building inspector and I took a walk and I showed him what I was talking about, he had a meeting with the others involved, he made belivers out of all of them. Even when the next job came around with the same decking crew I didn't have the first problem. I believe you have to get to the one with the final authority, sometimes the one with the checkbook or designer or owner or building dept, and explain how you are trying to protect their interest and you can't sign off on something you can't see, but if they would like to take that responsibility and liability you will write it in your report that they are accepting it as it is and you will let it go. Most of the time as soon as you mention their liability and responsibility if they accept it, they will support you in your efforts.

By HgTX

Date 06-07-2005 22:05

"management may not always be right but they are the management and what are you gonna do about that? You do what they want or go else where."

Wha?? If management hires you to inspect welds to a particular code, and declare that the welds meet the code, that's your job as CWI. If management tells you to go ahead and pass things that don't pass, you can't go ahead and pass them, just like if you hire an accountant to cook the books, that doesn't make it okay for them to cook the books because they were just following orders.

In many of the shops I deal with, QC and production are at odds (mostly because production doesn't understand that doing it right costs less than rework, but that's another issue). QC's job is to let production (which is usually the side that "management" is on) know where they're messing up. If management wants to cover their eyes and pretend nothing's wrong they shouldn't be hiring CWIs.

Hg

By DGXL

Date 06-07-2005 23:02

Ditto on previous comments supporting weld cleaning. I have not encountered one time when a building official or EOR did not support the inspector on weld cleaning by the welders.

Last year while doing structural observation with an engineer, I rejected decking for the same reason as the original post. The digital photos did not help the contractors cause. If I posted them you would understand why.

No clean, no mud - period. They (decking dudes w/attitudes) did come back to clean and make any repairs prior to final payment.

By Jim Hughes (***)

Date 06-07-2005 23:06

Great topic!! We as inspectors need to have the attitude of being part of the solution not part of the problem. I have been a QC Manager with a number of inspectors under me. I have said two main things to them when they would come to work for us. It is not your job to cater to the welders if they want to be lazy and leave sloppy work. But I also told them that there are going to be times that they might have to power wire brush a weld or clean slag or what ever it took to do the inspection part of there job. I would take these people through some training and cover these and other issues before they went to the field to work. It was also there job to build relationships with the craft and develope good communication with them. I said all of that to say this, but there were times when I would have CWI's (prima-Dona) that would refuse to be part of the solution, did not want to be a team player, and would refuse to do anything other than inspect. Most of our work was shut down work and we only had 10 to 12 weeks to get the plant back up and running, and we had to hussle. So I agree with all due respect to the other posts with Ron G a little. It's what ever the job description says. To many times I see this, us (Inspectors) against them ( the craft) and that sounds a little bit of what this might be. I'm sorry if this affends some people, but this is what I have seen.

By DGXL

Date 06-08-2005 02:05

Good reply Jim.

*I did forget to mention I do keep a chipping hammer in my tool bag. If I want to check a welder's work before he/she slags, then I do this at my own discretion.

*In the original post, it is asked if the inspector should be cleaning slag? If the inspector agrees to do so, more power to them. If an inspector requests the welds to be cleaned in accordance with the code, they do so in compliance with the code.

*The welds I referred to in my last post were not in accordance with the code, and repairs admittedly had to made by the contractor. Their claims that the welds were acceptable and did not require cleaning were incorrect... They did not have proper welding records (WPS's & WPQR's) and they used the wrong electrodes for a large portion of the decking in addition to all the other problems they caused.

*If the inspector noted above wants to assume the reponsibility for welds they have not inspected, other ethical issues would be a concern, like integrity. What does it say on this persons report????

By CallMeTigger Date 06-08-2005 04:37

I didn't read to much of this so im sorry if somone already mentioned it...using a scaler tool can remove slag so fast, even on 6010. Not to sure on the name but it's a buch of rods that bounce around, used to clean slag or prep a plate...

By RonG

Date 06-08-2005 12:07

Good grief! All I said was "If you accept a job, then do it. All the belly aching in the world won't change the fact the management will do what they want, when they want and you can ether comply or go else where.

We have several Level lls and a couple level llls in our shop (non of which are CWIs) and they don’t clean up behind them selves. Mag fluid and PT every where and on every thing.

I have a CWI stamp of my own and a stack of WQRs ¼’ thick. Big deal, I still have to do what my boss needs done because he has to answer to his boss and so on. They have this funny thing about them that says they like to hear positive things like the job is completed and ahead or on time. That’s what puts the money in the bank for the check you receive for the SERVICES RENDERED.

By thekoz

Date 06-08-2005 13:28

OK, I have to put in my $.02.

There is a big difference between an inspector that never leaves his shop and a contract inspector. It seems to me that arguments in this thread side with each type. I have been both in my career.

As a shop inspector, I found it rare to find a weld that was not descaled. As a contract inspector inspecting structural steel buildings, I found it to be an accepted practice among the Ironworker trade to leave slag on puddle welds and bar joist to top flange connections. The reasons I got for the lack of cleaning were varied. Claiming that the job was underbid and to clean the welds would take too much time was the most common. Also, the problem can be exponentially worse if it is a non-union job site. Anyone who has inspected a W**-Mart can testify to this.

Most contract inspectors time is booked 1/2 to 1 week out. If any contract inspector had to break out a chipping hammer and deslag a 30,000 sq. ft. building by him/her self and inspect it, he/she may as well plan to be there all week. Just imagine if the building is a power plant, skyscraper, 1/4 mile bridge, or sports stadium. An inspector could not keep up with the chipping let alone the inspecting!

The D1.1 code could not be any clearer. The weld cleaning requirement is located in 5.30, the fabrication section of the code. If it was the inspectors responsibility, it would be in section 6, Inspection.

I DO think that every inspector should carry a slag hammer and use it randomly when they encounter a jobsite that was left unslagged. That way, he/she can also bring up welding defficiencies if they exist to those concerned. Also, at times, even a concientious inspector can forget to clean a weld here or there. I do not think defficiency reports need to be generated in the latter case. A good inspector will chip it, inspect it, and move on.

By QCCWI

Date 06-08-2005 14:19

I took a job as a weld inspector not a weld cleaner. I am a level II in Mag and UT.I clean up behind myself everytime.Not because management tells me to but because I want to. If I listened to my paycheck signer I could leave UT gel on everything I check but I clean it up.When the contract requires an outside UT inspector he/she walks in the door knowing he/she will not leave a mess on my steel. Management in your shop need to ask your level IIs the old question ( Does your mom work here?)

The shop work in has 9 welders welding on my steel. I have to look at hundreds and hundreds of welds a day. I dont mind cleaning some welds.I will not clean hundreds of welds a day.I will tell management I will not clean them. Management pays 9 people to weld and 1 to inspect. If management cannot get 9 people to do the job they get paid to do that is management problem. Management will not work the crap out of this 1 because they dont want to make 9 do their job.

By brande

Date 07-10-2005 05:02

CWI's work to a code, period. Read the book, look at the welds, make a decision. No rocket science here.
It either meets specified code, or it does not.

While I am more versed in D1.5 than D1.1, I believe the requirements are the nearly the same.

If anything interferes with NDT or paint, it must be removed.

Yes, we all have an employer. And yes, his needs are important.

To jeopardize your stamp is a no brainer. That is all you have.
There will be other employers, keep that in mind.
There might be one or two that admire your integrity. (Imagine that!)

Just my two cents..

Good luck

brande

By Jim Hughes (***)

Date 07-11-2005 14:03

How are you going to jeopardize your stamp? What stamp are you refering to? CWI or AWS does not sign your check. The first part of the sentence "CWI's work to a code, period" This is why I don't hire CWI's. There seams to be this prevailing primadona attitude with in the CWI ranks. I'm sorry,this a huge issue to me. Having to clean a weld does not in any way violate what ever code you are inspecting to. I'm sorry if this might upset some people, but I think you should have a can-do attitude about what ever your employer asks of you as long as it does not violate what ever code your are inspecting to.
Just some thoughts to ponder.
Thanks
Jim

By QCCWI

Date 07-11-2005 19:11

I don't have a problem cleaning a couple of welds. But I will not clean every weld on job. In the fab shop I work in I do what ever it takes to get the steel out the door as fast as possible as long as it is up to code. I did not write the code I just agree to follow it. You keep saying clean a weld,this post started over hundreds of welds not being cleaned not a weld.If a job has a 1,000 welds on it and I have to clean 100 of them so be it,but I will not clean 1,000 welds on a 1,000 weld job.Call me a primadona or any other words you can think of just don't call me when you need a CWI to inspect.The only sentence I liked in your post was "This is why I don't hire CWI's."

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 07-11-2005 19:33

Going back to Miwini's original statement so we're not ALL missing the point here:

"and the client hired another CWI who accepted the welds without cleaning."

I don't know how any of us can ethically argue this is acceptable practice.

Whether the inspection firm decides they want to clean "X" percentage of welds is entirely one that must be left up to the firm. If they don't and won't ask their inspector's to perform what many may consider to be a craft function then the client may dismiss them, but an inspector should never inspect through slag, etc. The codes don't define WHO cleans the welds, just that they must be cleaned before inspection.

Doesn't this kind of put this topic to rest now?

By brande

Date 07-24-2005 06:34

Jim-
Unfortunately, both the D1.1 and D1.5 do address the cleanliness of welds.

Cleaning of completed welds-
All slag shall be removed and adjacent areas shall be brushed clean.
See AWS D1.1, section 5.30.2

Read it-it's there. If a weld has slag remaining, it does not meet code.

There may be a primadonna attitude with the CWI's you have hired in the past, I don't have any control over that.

I don't do the "primmadonna" thing.

Yes, the CWI stamp is important. If the AWS feels I have violated the "code of ethics" or not done my job well, revocation of my CWI stamp is a real possibility.

Try getting CWI inspector work without a CWI stamp!

My attitude is better than most and I work closely with my clients.

In the end, if it violates the code (as an uncleaned weld does), it is wrong and should be called.

Good Luck

brande

By Jim Hughes (***)

Date 07-25-2005 13:30

Brande,
What is "CWI inspection work"?
I'm not saying the welds don't have to be cleaned, what I'm saying is if your boss, i.e the client, says clean them, then clean them. The Codes do not say who is to clean them. The primmadonna part comes in when I hear or read that welding inspectors (CWI) or an inspector with any cert, says they will not clean welds. Would AWS pull your stamp if you cleaned welds?
Jim

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 07-25-2005 16:25

I can personally guarentee that AWS would not pull an inspectors stamp for cleaning welds, however they could possibly consider doing so for accepting welds which are still covered with slag...

By swnorris (****)

Date 07-25-2005 17:26

It has never been a question for me as to who is responsible for removing slag. The welder is. Jim posted that the codes do not say who is to clean them. He's absolutely right. There is nothing that specifically word for word says that welders are responsible for cleaning their welds prior to inspection. However, consider this:
As we all know, in D1.1, 5.30.2 "Cleaning of Completed Welds" it is stated that "Slag shall be removed from all completed welds, and the weld and adjacent base metal shall be brush cleaned".
Section 5 Fabrication, is the section that governs fabrication. Under 5.1 Scope, it states "All applicable provisions of this section shall be observed in the fabrication and erection of welded assemblies and structures produced by any process acceptable in this code". Since weld cleaning is addressed in Section 5, Fabrication (at 5.30.2), and based on how the scope is worded, it would be the responsibility of the fabrication and erection teams to clean their welds.
In Section 6, Inspection, under 6.1 Scope, it states "Section 6 contains all the requirements for the inspector's qualifications and responsibilities, acceptance criteria for discontinuities, and procedures for NDT". There are no provisions anywhere in Section 6 that indicate weld cleaning is the responsibility of the inspector. Now, that's not to say that an inspector couldn't remove slag from a weld every once in a while because it was honestly missed by the welder, as long as it doesn't exceed that. Even then, the inspector should let the welder know that he "missed one".
Also, in the commentary, C5.30 Weld Cleaning states that "the removal of slag from a deposited weld bead is mandatory to prevent the inclusion of the slag in any following bead and to allow for inspection". Take note of those last four words..."to allow for inspection". Doesn't this strongly imply that the welder is responsible?

By - Date 07-25-2005 18:27

There are a lot of discussions in this thread, so please allow me to give my 2 cents worth. In Section IX, QW-410.5, it specifies the "change in the method of initial and interpass cleaning (brushing, grinding, etc.)" This is in the Section of the Code Book that is called "Welding Data". As a W.E. (also a CWI and CWE) I have written and assisted in writing many PQR's and WPS's. On all WPS's that I've ever written, there is a section called Technique (QW-410) where it sets the guideline for the cleaning of the welds. After the initial PQR is written and it is approved by mechanical testing, then a WPS is generated. The WPS, Welding Procedure Specification) is then generated by transcribing the acceptable data from the PQR to the WPS. As we all know, the WPS is the guideline that the welder(s) follow for acceptable welding due to testing. When the method of cleaning (QW-410.5) is described on the WPS, it is my opinion that it is the responsibility fo the WELDER to follow all parts of the WPS, including the cleaning of the welds as described in QW-410.5. Any welder worth is weight in welding rods will automatically clean all his welds unless he is trying to hide something. Not to clean his welds shows a lack of professionalism, integrity, but mostly a total lack of pride. Many years ago when I was working as a CWI, I did have to randomly clean a weld or two when radiography was ready to start, or PT was going to be done, etc., but I always carried a notebook with me and I noted the welds I had to clean and always let the welder know that it is HIS job to clean his own welds. To me, cleaning the welds is just as much a part of the welding process as burning the rods. Welders should make sure ALL of the guidelines of the WPS are followed before walking away from that weld. Then, that is when the CWI starts doing his job of inspecting. Failing to follow ALL aspects of the WPS is a violation of that procedure, including cleaning. swnorris, this thread was not directed at you, I just clicked on the "reply" button under your response. :)

Chuck

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 07-25-2005 18:38

Chuck, I completely agree with you and I think most people would; it SHOULD be considered the welder's responsibility to clean his/her welds.

Having said that; everyone, please check out my posting from 11-July-2005, maybe we can move on? ;-)

By - Date 07-25-2005 18:58

Hi Jon,
I certainly agree with your posting of 11-July-2005. One more thing... I believe that QW-322.1 (b), Expiration of Qualification makes a statement for this thread on responsibility. It states, "When there is a specific reason to question his ability to make welds that meet the specification, the qualifications which support the welding he is doing shall be revoked." I take this as saying regardless of the reasons for his inability of making good welds (not cleaning his welds, improper parameters, wrong process, etc.) His qualifications can be revoked for not following ALL the aspects of the specification, or WPS. If cleaning of the welds is part of the specification, and he fails to do it, he violates it and his qualification for that process can be revoked.

Chuck

By brande

Date 07-29-2005 02:15

Jim-

What Jon20013 said is exactly what I have been driving at.

Good Luck

brande

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 07-29-2005 07:41

Hey Brande!

I could'nt have written it better myself ;>)

I'll give you a call as soon as I find the time... busy, busy, busy!!!

Respectfully,
SSBN727
Run Silent... Run Deep!!!

P.S. Seen any small or largemouth bass lately?
I've seen plenty jumpin (being pulled) out of the three rivers lately ;>)

By - Date 07-29-2005 12:38

SS,
Now largemouth bass fishing is a thread we can discuss in great detail all day long...:) I will be on the lake tomorrow preparing for a tourney next week at a lake called Lake Fork here in Texas. Oh man, my favorite subject....

Chuck

By RonG

Date 07-29-2005 15:07

Back on 1 June I was just being the Devils Advocate primarily because the string was somewhat lopsided. I had no idea it would create so much response and generate a lot of food for thought.

I personally agree that a welder should clean as he goes and we certainly do in our shop. Fact is we put a lot of time and expense in cleaning our welds. But I also know that circumstances arise and it becomes to necessary to change methods or personnel. Things just aren’t the same has they were a few years ago, we could work at an almost casual pace and make production. Now days we have to produce twice as much with half the people and we surely do not need any to be a hindrance. I don’t have time to hold hands and explain how the world just keeps on going with or without them or me for that matter.

Quality is a key issue because with out it we would run out of one time customers real quick. We have Managers, Sales people, Project mangers & Engineers that know precisely what the customer wants and expects and they spell it out in the form of "Detailed Work Instructions" that include things like Drawings, Material, Welding and NDE specs.

The pay rate is top of the line for work that is the same. It really is very simple concept and it truly is all about money. You can hang all the romantic images on it you want but the $ is the backbone of it all and if you do not wish to capitulate you are welcome to go some where else.

By vonash

Date 08-10-2005 20:38

Try SDI-Standard Deck Institute, paragraph 3.05.B.