If your looking for AWS standard terms, than it would be a groove weld that is being placed in a butt joint.
Another example would be a fillet weld being placed in a lap joint. We often call them lap welds but according to *standard terms* thats not quite correct.
The basic types of "Joints" are Butt, Edge, Corner, Lap, and Tee. The groove or weld type would usually be a fillet reinforced groove weld.
Course I could be wrong
Y'all have a nice day
Gerald Austin
http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com/
For the purposes of determining NDE and PWHT, it would be considered a circumferential butt weld.
NDTIII:
You must be back in Kingdom? Had this discussion many years ago. Others claim this to be a T joint pipe intersections w/out a joint prep. other than a pipe cope for the T stem. It depends what quadrant of the joint you observe from and the engineer.
It is a butt joint with a groove weld or a fillet weld. Many think a fillet weld cannot be applied to a butt joint. Groove/fillet welds or both can used to join "abutting" members. Several answers are correct above.
A Weldolet branch weld is a groove only with no reinforcing fillet. Sometimes a small fillet is added at the toe of the weld on the run pipe, but only to reduce the stress concentration. See page 35 of this document:
http://www.bonneyforge.com/OletCat.PDF
If you look at ASME B31.1, section 127.4.8 states that the weldolet is attached with a groove weld that may or may not be full penetration (depending on the size of the fitting) and that the groove weld has to be reinforced by a fillet weld.
Tim
Good call! That's what I was looking for.
I would not call that fillet reinforcement. 127.4.8(C) applies to integrally reinforced fitting, which is what a weldolet fitting is. The last paragraph in 127.4.8(C) requires a "cover fillet" which has a 3/16 in. minimum throat dimension when you look at the referenced figure. This small cover fillet at the toe of the weld on the run pipe is intended to reduce the stress concentration, since the fitting itself already meets the reinforcement requirements of para. 104.
Thanks everyone. I appreciate all of your input. So can I safely assume I was correct when I told my colleague that a weld between a weld-o-let and a pipe is a groove weld in a butt joint and not a butt weld?
I still say butt joint NDTIII.
Think of it this way your butting it up against another part to be welded. Last time i put two pieces of steel together side by side it was a butt joint. I dont know tho could be different now?
Yes, this is a groove weld butt joint.
Thanks for the input guys.
I just found this and thought you'd be interested.
ASME B31.3 Interpretation 14-13 states this:
Question: In accordance with ASME B31.3, when a proprietary intergrally reinforced branch connection is welded to the outside of run pipe, is the weld classified as a single vee full penetration butt weld with a cover fillet weld?
Reply: No, see para. 328.5.4(d)
Now para. 328.5.4(d) states, Branch connections, including branch connection fittings, which abut the outside of the run or which are inserted in a opening in the run shall be attached by fully penetrated groove welds. The welds shall be finished with cover fillet welds having a throat dimension not less than tc.
I say regardless of code, it is not a butt joint. Here is one common definition for a butt joint . I do agree that it is a "Groove Weld" and is often "fillet reinforced".
"a joint between two members aligned approximately in the same plane"
All weld "Joints" are a configutration that matches a a Butt, Corner, Edge, ,Lap, or Tee.
Butt, edge, lap, tee, corner all describe the "Joint Type".
The weld preparation is either a groove or fillet however I often get a little confused.
For the purpose of codes, things could get a little confusing however usually the branch connections and weldolets are addressed with their own text.
Have a good day
Gerald
Hey Gerald!
I have to agree with your thoughts on this...
Too often, I notice that people inadvertantly associate the term "butt joint" with another completely independent term called a "groove weld" without checking what they're attempting to articulate...
I've been guilty of doing so more than once myself but, I doubt many will admit the same.
Anywho, good read pal!
Respectfully,
SSBN727 - Run silent... Run Deep!!!
With refererence to ASME Section VIII, Div.1, UW-3(b) when butt welded joints are required elsewhere in this Division for Category B, an angle joint connecting a transition in diameter to a cylinder shall be considered as meeting this requirement provided the angle รก (see Fig. UW-3)does not exceed 30 deg. All requirements pertaining to the butt welded joint shall apply to teh angle joint.
I agree with what Gerald is saying here. I guess I was thinking of it as a "butt weld" in terms of determining the NDE requirements from the table in B31.1. However, I should not have tried to do that from memory. Looking at Table 136.4, branch connections are considered separately from butt welds in determining NDE. A weldolet-to-pipe weld is a full penetration groove weld in a branch connection, and the joint is a corner joint and not a butt joint.
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