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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Distance of weld jont
- - By khodabandeh (**) Date 09-05-2005 04:08
Dear Sir,
I would like to know the distance of between welds joints accordibg to ASME B31.3,ASME B31.1,AWS D1.1,API1104,please specify the refrence of standard code.
Parent - By - Date 09-05-2005 18:38
Mr. Khodabandeh,
In general you will find that the persons that are frequent contributors to this forum are extremely helpful and willing to spend time to help others with answers to their questions. By the same token, however, you will find that those same forum contributors are much less helpful when people are asking them to do their research for them or are avoiding the purchase of the standards or texts in which they can easily find the answers to their questions.

To answer your question, all you need to do is procure the codes that you reference and look up the answers.
Mankenberg
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 09-05-2005 20:54
Bravo Kip


It is important not to depend on internet forums for code data. If you have not seen the data first hand you have not seen it.

Remember, the person who puts what they might think to be relevant code information into a post might mistype, quote from a specification that has been updated with different information or just plain be comming up with data from the top of his or her head.

Once you have access to the code, then you can ask specific questions about interpretation... but even those answers may only be an opinion.

B31.3
http://www.constructionbook.com/xq/ASP/ProductID.4538/id.671/subID.673/qx/default2.htm

B31.1
http://www.techstreet.com/cgi-bin/detail?product_id=922455

D1.1
http://www.constructionbook.com/xq/ASP/id.341/subID.773/qx/default2.htm?CMP=KNC-Google

API 1104
http://www.techstreet.com/cgi-bin/detail?product_id=2056
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 09-05-2005 21:26
Mr. Mankenberg, Mr. Lawrence,
don't get angry with Mr. Khodabandeh. From the spelling of his surname I assume that he lives in India, Pakistan, Indonesia or some other Far East country other than Japan.
For you Americans is easy to look at any code, standard etc. published in the USA. For us, citizens of third world, underdeveloped countries, is not that easy, and sometimes is almost impossible.
First of all, American publications must be bought in US dollars. There was a time here in Brazil, and it wasn't so long ago, that you had to fill a form justifying why you wanted to buy a book in a foreign country. After the requirement was approved by some Government bureaucrat, you went to the bank and made a money order, for which the bank charged a commission that was equal to the order amount. In other words, the book price was twice the regular price, plus, of course, the postage expenses.
Thanks God, it's different now and you can buy a book charging it on your credit card.
Speaking always of Brazil, and particularly of Sao Paulo, the most developed city in the country from an industrial point of view, you can count on the tip of your fingers the libraries, either public or private, (i.e. that belong to some company), that have, not all, but at least the most importants American Codes and standards, and usually of an old edition.
Considering that Sao Paulo is a city of 18 million people and measures 40 kilometers from north to south and 60 kilometers from east to west, you'll understand why I said that sometimes is impossible to look at the standards.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 09-06-2005 04:09


Did I sound mad?

I read it twice again.. I don't think I sound mad.


Giovanni... If your working to a code (anyplace) you ought to have the code available.

The point I was trying to make is that Data gotten from internet forums.. even respected ones, need to be varified by the code referenced.

I think we have all seen instances where folks with good intentions offered bad advice on important issues through internet forums. If the guy is trying to work to those codes he needs the code books even if they are hard to get.

Would you feel confident as a contractor if your engineer made decisions without actual doccumentation and obtained code specification data for a project from an internet forum?
Parent - - By GIOVANILOPES (*) Date 09-07-2005 02:08
I`m concord.


Giovani Lopes


Parent - By GIOVANILOPES (*) Date 09-07-2005 02:10
I´m concord with Professor Grisi.


SDS

Giovani Lopes
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 09-05-2005 21:02
With all due respect to Mr. Mankenberg, I have to say that none of the mentioned codes and standards, nor any other American code, answer the question.
For this reason, that question has been posted plenty of times on this Forum. I personally have answered several times that same question.
I suggest that Mr. Khodabandeh does some research, clicking on the "search" button on the upper right corner of this page.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
Parent - - By khodabandeh (**) Date 09-06-2005 09:20
with all due respect to Mr.Giovanni and thanks alot about your honorable behaviour.you are so clever, yes you understand correctly , I have new eddition of standard code and I search that QUESTION first ,but I can not find any things about that also I am not from indian but I am far from USA and I submmited the standadard very expensive.this site recently introduce to me therefore I decide to ask from other engineer but, only you with polite behaviour reply to my question and I know in standard have not any mention about that but in one project we have bad contractor that support from owner and we are MPC in this project.when the contactor has shortage of material welded the smal pipe nipple for each size that distance of welds joints very less.I think that is make problem for microstrure of the material.I hope other engineer contact with question of each people same as you.
Omid Khodabandeh
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 09-06-2005 12:25
With all due respect to everyone's opinion in here, I may suggest an alterate website: https://cop.asme.org/COP/Public/Login/index.fusion?ForwardTo=/COP/ASME/

While the AWS Forum has an excellent bank of highly talented engineer's, technicians and practitioner's, when poses a question addressing numerous ASME/API standards, it may be best advised to visit an ASME site, which the above link will take you.

Parent - - By - Date 09-06-2005 14:22
Gentlemen,
If the tone of my initial posting was found to be offensive, please accept my apologies. This was certainly not my intent. Perhaps Lawrence better expressed what I was trying to say.
As Prof. Crisi mentioned and based on my more than 15 years spent working in so-called "underdeveloped countries", it can be at times difficult for the casual person to obtain publications such as those mentioned by Mr. Khodabandeh. I must state, however, that my personal observations have been that persons involved in a project with a legitimate need to see such standards have always been able to obtain them.

I currently do have access to the standards mentioned by Mr. Khodabandeh, but I have not looked up the provisions in which he is interested. I will take Prof. Crisi's word for it that those particular codes do not place limitations on the minimum distance from one weld to another. That lack of a requirement in itself provides an answer to Mr. Khodabandeh's question. If a particular practice is not specifically prohibited by a code, then that practice is acceptable. This is one of the reasons for the existence of project specific specifications - they often contain provisions that are not found in the codes referenced therein. I would suggest that Mr. Khodabandeh check the project spec to see if the situation in which he is interested is discussed within the spec. If it is not and he still has concerns, then the next logical step would be to use whatever system is in place for addressing problems due to possible engineering oversight.

Best regards to all,
Mankenberg
Parent - - By - Date 09-06-2005 14:36
Kip,
In no way was your response offensive. Unfortunately, with so many different nationalities and backgrounds in this forum, it might seem different to others, but I certainly did not take it as anything but honest and cordial. I most definitely agree that a contractor, whether it is in India, Pakistan, or Japan, or even a "third world country" like Brazil, have the resources to obtain the Code Book it will be working under. So what if the Book costs twice as much in their country... Is it not worth it to have it on hand for such references as this? I work for a company in Sweden and we have absolutely no trouble getting any Code Book that we deem necessary to do our job.

Chuck
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 09-06-2005 15:29
Chuck and Kip, well said. One cannot state that they are building to meet code requirements unless one has full access to the codes of record. I know the user has stated he has the codes in hand and has looked for the issue of question but might suggest taking another look? I, for one, am certainly unable to answer his questions.
Parent - - By khodabandeh (**) Date 09-07-2005 10:25
With all due respect to Mr.Jon yes I have accsess to standadards code but I can not find the particular codes related to that mention.
I am working in utility project that contract is EPC and I would like to say to Mr.kipmark with respect due to you,here the contractor submitted the procedure and specification and we check that and approve we have not separatly specificaton for welding and NDT therefor we continoue the standard,for this problem I cannot find any things but one controctor in piping line have 5 cm distance between joints I think that is changing the micro stracture of heat affected zon and weld metal and base metal.I remmebere here we have ITP ,WPS & PQR & NDT procedure.but about technical problems I require provision that I prevent the welding if that job is incorrect.
Omid Khodabandeh
Parent - - By - Date 09-07-2005 12:34
Mr. Khodabandeh,
If you have checked the project specification regarding this issue (you say that there is no welding and NDT spec), then if I were you and if I would identify the problem to the responsible piping design engineer or design engineering firm.
If a particular practice of the contractor is not prohibited by contract documents (i.e. by the applicable code and/or specification), then what they are doing is legal and permissible. Your only course of action then is to effect a change to the contract documents, and for a design issue (and minimum weld spacing is a design issue) that change would normally have to come through channels and from the designer.
Best regards,
Mankenberg
Parent - - By NDTIII (***) Date 09-07-2005 22:58
Kip hit the nail on the head.
I do not believe the code addresses this issue, however the engineering design should. If not, then the question should be addressed to the responsible engineering department.
If there are NO welding or NDT specs, how are you building this piping? Check you Project Proposal. That may contain some information you need. Doesn't the owner have their own set of Engineering Specs to follow?
I have seen on some projects where one 100mm was used as the minimum distance between welds. That came from the Engineering Design.
If that was not possible, the welds would receive NDT.
Parent - - By vonash (**) Date 09-09-2005 01:30
If your contract documents specify codes and standards which are unfamiliar to you, I suggest purchasing a course from AWS. There are many subjects to choose from, including code requirements. You will need to purchase the codes and standards applicable to your work.
Best regards,
Vonash
Parent - - By khodabandeh (**) Date 09-09-2005 03:25
with due respect to NDT III again I say here we have NDT & WELDING procedure but that is not specify anythings about distance of welds.
Parent - By NDTIII (***) Date 09-09-2005 05:57
Check with you Engineering Department. They should be able to answer your question. The code will not take responsibility for addressing that issue.
Parent - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 09-09-2005 16:04
Mr. Kahodabandeh,

it depends alot on the material. The company that I work for has a company standard of 1 times the diam. of pipe. I have never seen anything in any of the codes you listed about the distance between welds. Now if it's 5 to 9 chrome then it's 1.5 times the diam. Again, this is a in-house standard for our company.
Parent - - By waynekoe (**) Date 09-15-2005 15:30
Don't know about the other codes, but as for AWS D1.1, setion 5.22.3.1 will give you their view for girth welds.
Parent - - By azweld Date 09-15-2005 23:10
A simple question, but is a girth weld the same as a pipe weld but used on structural steel?
Parent - By NDTIII (***) Date 09-16-2005 04:15
Easy answer. A Girth weld is a circumferential weld in a butt joint.
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 09-16-2005 12:15
Girth welds (by reference) are not limited to structural steel. As pointed out by NDTIII, they are simply a circumferential butt joint in piping as opposed to a longitudinal joint.
Parent - By khodabandeh (**) Date 09-19-2005 07:59
Dear Sir,
thank a lot.but here we have not home code about distance of the welds in the piping lines,also engineering only attention to the design and they havenot any point about this mention.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Distance of weld jont

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