ISO weld positions

By - Date 10-05-2005 23:52

Hi Donnie,
Sorry, I missed seeing this post.
First of all, we must realize that this is a Swedish technical manual so it is not going to be like the ones we are used to. They use boxes, which is confusing to us, instead of circular diagrams (pipe). What the 3 boxes are saying is this:
Box 1 is saying that electrodes 2.0mm-3.25mm (5/64-1/8) can be used in all positions including vertical up
Box 2 is showing electrodes 4.0m (5/32) can be used in all positions except vertical up.
Box 3 shows electrodes 5.0mm (3/16) can be used in flat and horizontal.
This is confusing but that's what it means. Hope that helps, even though it may not seem like that is what it looks like.

By - Date 10-06-2005 13:39

Donnie,
Those little boxes are misleading. The arrows only indicate weld progression. The arrow pointing up indicates the forward (push) weld progression. The arrow pointing down indicates the pull weld progression. The 45 degree arrow indicates the electrode can be used in the 45 degree angle max. The arrow outside the box pointing up indicates verticle up. The verticle up arrow is always outside the box, as indicated in the picture of the first box. That's how the Swedish indicate weld progression. Not the best, that's how they do it. Sorry for any confusion.

By dlmann

Date 10-08-2005 04:38

Chuck:
Thanks for the info!! I knew that Avesta was a European company and I had assumed that those boxes were some kind of ISO symbols. Sorry it took a couple of days to get back with you. Had to rotate around for night shift again.

I would like knowing what you think about this 253 ma AC/DC filler metal. Its what we use here. First let me till you about its application here. We have a rotating kiln designed to deactivate explosives (TNT, comp B, and others). The kiln operates at around 1200 degrees F. The shell is 253ma two inches thick and 5 ft in diameter. Inside the kiln are flights 253ma (roughly 12 x 12 x 1) arranged in a spiral to move the deactivated material down to the discharge end. At the charge end the kiln, the explosives explode from time to time (instead of just fizzing off) and blow the flights off. When to many are blown off we have a forced outage. The 253ma flights that are completely blown off are replaced with new ones. The rest are repaired by grinding and rewelding. The joint design is a groove with reinforcing fillet on both sides of the flight.

Our #1 problem is welding in any position other that flat. Our WPS is all position uphill progression developed with Rolled Alloys RA253MA-16 covered electrodes. Some of our welders were tested 2G, 3G and 4G, and the rest were tested 3F and 4F; all qualified using Avesta 253ma AC/DC filler metal. However, at crunch time in the forced outage, welds other than flat will bust out. The weld puddle will just run off. They have to rotate the kiln for all the welds to be the flat or horizontal position. We have tried 1/8 and 5/32 dia electrodes. According to the technical data, these diameters of filler are all position, although the vertical progression 5/32 appears to be different from the 1/8. If we can weld in all positions we can reduce the down time dramatically.

I’ve read as much literature that I can get my hands on about welding 253ma. What I got out of it is watch your amperage and keep arc length short. Any advice?

Regards, Donnie Mann

By - Date 10-08-2005 13:02

Hi Donnie,
First of all, let's imagine those little boxes in the literture are drawn in the sand and you are standing over them looking down at them. The first box has the arrow outside the box, pointing up, to indicate the ability to use the 2.0mm (5/64"), 2.50mm (3/32"), and 3.25mm (1//8") in the vertical up progression. It also shows these diameters can be used in the push progression (arrow up), pull progression (arrow down), horizontal progression (arrow to the right), and a 45 deg. angle up ( arrow in the 45 deg ). I will say that it is easier to weld vertical up with the 5/64" and the 3/32" electrode, but the 1/8" is certainly possible. When welding uphill with these rods, you must use a "triangle" type welding technique, not a weave type technique. As the other 2 boxes indicate, none of those rods are designed to weld vertical up.

Using the short arc length is the way to go. Actually, the best way is to have the rod in contact with the metal at all times. Instead of a short arc, actually drag the rod on the metal.

If you have any questions, leave a phone number and I will call you and explain about the triangle type welding technique and try to answer any other questions..

Chuck

By dlmann

Date 10-09-2005 01:41

Hello Chuck:
Thanks again for your help!! Yes, I do want to follow up on this with you. But it will have to wait just a little bit. Poor me, I have to go down to Tampa FL for a SSPC class and exam this week. So far you have given myself and the Maintenance Supt something to chew on. Lord knows and trending shows that we will have another unscheduled outage by mid Nov. I'll be in touch after the Tampa trip.
Regards, Donnie Mann