Fillet Break Test Question

Date 11-24-2005 05:17

Don't know if it is normal, but the requirements are clear.

You must have complete root fusion to pass this test.

A slag line here would indicate to me some problems with electrode manipulation.

Be sure that it is a slag line.

Good Luck

brande

By Bill M

Date 11-28-2005 15:20

did you try any of the suggestions when you asked the identical question a month ago?

http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?id=7994#37718

By rsx-s-02 (*)

Date 11-28-2005 19:08

Actually I posted here first, but due to the lack of response under the "inspection" title, I re-posted under the "shop talk" section. There I received much more feedback. Yes, I have tried the suggestions on the other post with some success. It has been a long road with this problem. So far, this is what I know. According to D1.1 there must be fusion to the root. The key word being "to". Beyond the root is not required and slag beyond the root is considered acceptable. We changed to the .052 wire and the penetration was better, the welds even looked better. But there still was a minimal amount of slag at or beyond the root. My research of this has been interrupted due to executive management over-ruling my decision to use the .052 wire. I’m told that there is a health concern with the amount of smoke generated by the larger wire. Despite my objection we are going back to the .045. The shop re-tested using the .045 wire and the test were sent out to an outside inspector. (yes, it was a slap in the face) Management wanted a second opinion. Well the outside inspector said all test samples failed. We have an array of welders here. Some with only a few years experience and some with 25-30 years. All could not pass a fillet weld test. All of them have passed a 3G on 1 inch plate which qualifies also them to do fillet welds. Now we are back to using the .052 wire and will re-test all the welders again in about a month. I’ve been researching in AWS Welding Handbook and found basically the same answers to the problem….improper parameters and manipulation, and joint design. I’m hopeful that the next round of tests will be accepted. Are there any other fabricators out there similar to ours that can try a simple fillet break test, and let me know of their results? I would be interested to know if it’s just us or everyone.

By Bill M

Date 11-28-2005 20:06

I was really curious if you were able to get any different results with the suggestions offered in the other post.

By rsx-s-02 (*)

Date 11-28-2005 21:18

The most noticeable difference was turning up the heat and changing the wire size. We originally tried turning up the heat with the smaller wire, but the smaller wire couldn't handle it. I also believe the travel speed and the position of the welder is contributing to the problem. It's difficult to get a welder with 25+ years of experience to change the way he welds.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 11-29-2005 12:23

We use 3/32" Esab E70T-1 FCAW wire w/ 100%CO2 and get the penetration required on fillet welds. I read some of what you posted in the other thread on this subject, but it sounds like you'll need to use a drag angle rather than a push, this will do several things for you, a drag angle will help you build fillet size by using the arc to help hold back the puddle (so it will build in size for those 5/16" fillets) and you'll need to stay out on the leading edge of the puddle and not let the puddle run ahead of you or you'll leave that line of slag you were talking about.

As far as the larger wire being more harmful to your welders...Like I said we use 3/32" wire and I had a test conducted to ease our welder's concerns. I needed a baseline to see where we were as far as exposure levels, so I had several welders wear the filters (clipped up near thier collar under their shield) to gather the fumes mostly like the welder was breathing and they wore these things for an entire shift(tests were performed by an outside testing lab). By doing this we were able to gather enough info for an 8 hour weighted test and compared the data to OSHA's allowable limits. Our shop has fairly tall ceilings to accommodate overhead cranes and about 60ft wide bays that are several hundred feet long, and we were way under those limits set by OSHA. I have a hard time believing that you are overexposed in a typical structural steel shop bay by running .052" wire vs .045" wire provided the welders aren't couped up in a small room without ventilation. Exhaust fans can be installed up near the ceiling to pull polluted air away and draw in fresh air without disturbing shielding gases if needed.
John Wright

By rsx-s-02 (*)

Date 11-30-2005 16:13

Thanks John. I've passed the information along regarding the checking of smoke levels to upper management. They were very happy to hear that installing fans and additional ventilation may not be required. We will more than likely seek to purchase one or two portable smoke eaters. Also to let everyone know, dragging definitely reduces the amount of slag caught at the joint. Thanks again John and everyone for their feedback.