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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Streamlining Welder Certification
- - By Brian T Date 03-10-2006 16:10
I am trying to streamline the certification tests that we have to give. We currently work to ASME BPVC section 9. The question that I have is that if a welder takes a pipe test on P1-P1 with a GTAW root and hot pass, ER70S-6 bare wire, F6 then fills with a E7018, F1 in the 6G position. Then he qualifies on a plate P1-P1 in the flat position using ER70S-6, root and hot pass with a E309, F5 fill, will he be qualified to make out of position welds on pipe using filler number F5?
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 03-10-2006 16:17
The two tests do not "Combine" if that is what you are suggesting.

I would suggest doing away with the plate test and just do it as 6g with SS Stick Filler.

There are some allowances for larger diameter pipe and for fillet welds for qualification using plate.

Here is an older copy of the qualification range by positions. http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com/qw461p9.htm
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-10-2006 17:21
I may be mistaken, but I note a problem with the F numbers you cite.

The GTAW filler metal for carbon steel and stainless steel are both F6, but the specifications are different.

The E7018 electrode has a F number of 4 not 1. The SMAW stainless steel electrode has a F number of 5.

Pipe Test: The welder can qualify for carbon and stainless steel using the F6 filler metal. See table QW-423 of Section IX. However, the portion welded with F4 SMAW electrode (E7018) is qualified with backing (that being the GTAW root pass). The welder is then qualified for SMAW using F1, 2, 3, or 4 with backing only (see table QW-433). That would include partial joint penetration groove welds and those grooves that are back gouged. All of which can be in all positions because the test was performed in the 6G position.

Plate Test: The plate test taken in the flat position will only qualify the welder for the flat position (both grooves and fillets, see table QW-461.9) While the root pass is welded with an F6 filler metal (carbon steel) which qualifies the welder for carbon and stainless with GTAW. However, the remaining weld deposited with a F5 (E309) appears to be welded with SMAW. Based on table QW-433, F5 does not qualify for any other F number.

Look at table QW-433 carefully, the electrode used to qualify the welder is read across the top row of "Xs". The electrodes for which he/she is qualified is read from the column below the filler metal and whether it was deposited with or without backing. You are describing a weld made with a F5 electrode with backing. That would be the next to last column to the top right. Reading down, the welder is only qualified for F5 electrodes with backing. Again, The fact that the welder took the test in the flat position limits his/her welding to that position.

The F5 electrodes are not groups the same way as the F1 thru F4 are. Looking at table QW-433, third column from the right, if the welder tests on open root with a F4 electrode, he/she is qualified for F4 with or without backing, but F3, F2, and F1 are limited to welds made with backing.

Don't forget to consider the thickness limitations per process and pipe diameter limitations.

I don't believe the welding of the 6G using the F6 root and F4 fill can be combined with the flat plate (1G) welded with F6 root and F5 fill. Again, I believe table QW-433 is the disconnect between F1, F2, F3, and F4 and the F5 electrodes. The plate test with F5 electrode is considered separate from the pipe welded with F4.

I hope this helps.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Brian T Date 03-16-2006 13:57
Al,

That was my way of thinking but I was interested in seeing if anyone had came up with a good defense of doing it the way I had stated. Some how defending that the F5 would carry over to the pipe because both are SMAW. Thanks for you response.

Brian
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-16-2006 19:20
I'm happy that it was useful to you.

Best regards - Al
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Streamlining Welder Certification

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