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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / RT section 6.29.2
- - By chall (***) Date 03-17-2006 17:01
In D1.6, 1999 there are two descriptions of porosity acceptance criteria. The definitions are confusing. Both read about the same so I will only list one:

6.29.2.1: For welds subject to tensile stress under any condition of loading, the greatest dimension of any porosity or fusion type discontinuity that is 1/16" or larger in greatest dimension shall not exceed the size indicated on a figure in an annex (paraphrased ending).

The referenced figure is easy to understand. What on earth does the rest of that sentence mean?

I think it basically means all porosity or fusion type discontinuities shall not be larger than indicated on the referenced chart, for the size of weld applicable. Can anyone shed some light on this. It's hurting my head.

Thanks,
Charles

Parent - By hogan (****) Date 03-17-2006 17:07
you only consider those discontinuities that are 1/16" or larger.
Parent - By tito (**) Date 03-17-2006 17:36
Gotta love interpreting codes!!!
Parent - - By MBSims (****) Date 03-17-2006 23:02
This is one of the many reasons why I don't like working to D1.1. How is an inspector going to know the direction of loading unless he has a copy of the design calcs sitting in front of him and has a structural engineering degree to understand them. The only alternative is to have the engineer designate on the drawings which welds are loaded in tension. How many drawings have you seen that gave any indications of loading direction?
Parent - - By - Date 03-18-2006 02:33
Marty,
For what it's worth, your answer, or comment, is one of the most logical and true statements I've read in a long time. It makes me appreciate that I only deal in stainless steel. D1.1 can be a nightmare.

Chuck
Parent - By QCCWI (***) Date 03-18-2006 13:20
I have to admit that D1.1 is a pain but I look at the bright side, if it was easy anyone could do it and I might be out of a job.
Parent - - By - Date 03-18-2006 16:39
Marty,
It is the design engineer's responsibility to communicate to all other personnel whether or not a weld is statically or cyclically loaded or whether or not it is transverse or parallel to the primary direction of tensile stress.
If a drawing does not state any of this type of information, it can only mean that the particular weld in question is statically loaded. In fact, when I write inspection procedures for D1.1 work, there is always a statement to the effect that if it is not specifically stated otherwise on the drawing, then the weld is statically loaded. I make sure that the designers also buy off on the inspection procedures, just to make sure they know what is going on and to underline their responsibility to properly communicate the design requirements.
Mankenberg
Parent - - By MBSims (****) Date 03-19-2006 01:32
Kip,

I agree, but I don't think we were discussing static vs. dynamic loading. The question was how to tell if a weld is under tension, compression, shear or a combination of forces. In a simple weld, such as a padeye welded to an overhead beam, the direction of tensile stress is fairly easy to determine. In a complex structure with wind loads, seismic load considerations, cross bracing, floor loading, etc. the direction of forces and determination of whether the load is tensile is difficult to determine and not readily apparent to an inspector. How many drawings have you seen that show the direction of tensile stress for each weld joint?
Parent - - By - Date 03-19-2006 02:13
Marty,
I've never seen that and I would doubt that anyone has. Economic decisions are made at all levels, and it would be very expensive and cumbersome indeed to indicate that for every weld on every drawing. What I have seen are drawings in which a very complex weldment is divided up into zones, and each of the component drawings will specify static or cyclic (based on the zone into which will go the component). Sometimes on the cyclic drawings, there would be an indication of direction of tensile stress, but most of the time worst case was assumed.
I'm sure you'd agree that it is no one's job but that of the designer to make the determination of static vs cyclic or parallel vs transverse. In the D1.6 example, if not specifically stated on the drawing (or by some other means) I would have to assume that there is no tensile stress on the weld. However, I would likely ask the designer about it just to make sure that they have not overlooked that particular part of their job. That is also why I identify it in my procedures, so that the question comes up only once (i.e. at the beginning of the project when the procedures are being written) as opposed to every time an inspector goes to do an inspection.
Mankenberg
Parent - By MBSims (****) Date 03-19-2006 18:55
Sounds like we agree. I just don't see why D1 has to make the code so user UNfriendly to inspectors with criteria such as this.
Parent - - By chall (***) Date 03-20-2006 13:50
I appreciate everyones input, and recognize the frustration level. In this particular case, the direction of the load in relation to weld orientation is easily identified and the designer has specified all welds are to be considered cyclically loaded.

My confusion is in the way the size of the indication is described:

"...greatest dimension of any porosity or fusion type of discontinuity that is 1/16" or larger in greatest dimension shall not exceed the size indicated..."

Aparently it means: "Indications less than 1/16" are irrelavant. All others (porosity or fusion type) shall not exceed the dimension indicated (based on the size of the weld)."

The way it is written now is wordy and it really should be rewritten.

By the way; my comments are in regard to D1.6, although I suspect D1.1 is similarly worded.

Charles.
Parent - By MBSims (****) Date 03-21-2006 04:17
Charles,

You're interpretation that pores less than 1/16" in diameter are not relevant sounds correct.

Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 03-26-2006 01:12
AWS code is best read like mandarin chinese. That being backwards to the order as found in the English language. It reminds me of old time mil spec where 200 pages of code are invalidated by one footnote at the end.
I seem to recall a book that was produced by AWS "secrets of the code revealed". That says it all to me.

Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / RT section 6.29.2

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