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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / CWI Seminar is a Joke
- - By justcurious (*) Date 04-06-2006 13:27
My husband is taking the CWI seminar in Pa this week. He says that it is a big joke. First he arrives for his 1104 and the instructor called everyone taking it wimps for taking it.
Next, all during the class they take breaks about every 45 minutes. Husband says that the instructor puts stuff on the overhead, takes it off in about 10 seconds so you can just forget about taking any notes. Then to top it off instructor talks about his boat, house, and christmas lights around his boat for about 30 minutes. Guys are saying if any of that stuff is on the test they are sure to pass with flying colors. Husband knows instructors boat is tan and that he runs his electric bill up running Christmas lights.etc...........
The most important thing is that they get out of class about 3:00 each day. Because instructor goes over D1:1 codes with some of the "non wimps" Then they all head to HAPPY HOUR

I guess you can say that we are a little bitter. Some of the guys in the class that husband is talking to are a little bitter to. Husband is real glad that a friend gave him all the study material about 2 months before the test.
I have read some of the post on here about having really good instructors. Has anybody else had this problem when they took their seminar?
Parent - - By fbrieden (***) Date 04-06-2006 14:09
I attended my CWI seminar at WTTI in Allentown PA and the instructors went above and beyond professionalism;top notch organization.
Parent - - By gkcwi (**) Date 04-06-2006 15:01
I just completed my 18 year recert course, and the instructor as even beter than when I sat for the course 9 years prior. I would say that if your husband is really that bothered by the instructor, have him call the group that the instructor works for. Tell them what has happened, maybe they could do something for him.
Parent - By welderette (**) Date 04-06-2006 15:23
Your husband's experience is unfortunate. When I took the seminar five years ago, the instructor prevented any deviation from the material to be covered. No war stories, no nonsense. If discussion started getting into the realm of personal experiences, or arguing some grey area, the instructor would state " We'll discuss that on Monday".and of course after the 1st day, Monday never came. Both codes where given equal time.
Parent - - By justcurious (*) Date 04-06-2006 15:23
I pretty much don't think their is anything they would do. My husband is just glad that he studied for it and that he had all the book and sample test questions before the class. He says there is no fine tuning anything in this class.

He is worried about Friday, learning some of the hands on.
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 04-06-2006 15:48
justcurious, it sounds to me like your husband had a bad instructor. I've taken several seminars during my 25 years as a CWI and all of the instructors have been great, but there's always a first.

I strongly urge your husband to call AWS at (800) 443-9353 and speak with the following people:

Terry Perez Director,
Certification Operations tperez@aws.org 470

Gladys Santana Manager,
Conferences & Seminars gladys@aws.org 223

Martica Ventura Manager,
Conferences & Seminars mventura@aws.org 224

Have the information of where and when the seminar was, tell them the specific complaints and I truly believe they will address this problem. AWS is not in the seminar business to promote poor business. You might even find AWS willing to provide some form of compensation.

Good luck!
Parent - - By justcurious (*) Date 04-06-2006 16:08
Thanks Jon for reply. Wrote down the information and will give it to him. Knowing my husband he will wait until his test if over Sat. before he tells anybody. He is to afraid of it hurting his testing score.
My husbands boss took the seminar a couple of months ago and he said that his instructor was great. Took the time to go over some of the important facts, etc....... Hubby said 1104 class got through in about 45 minutes.
Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 04-06-2006 17:32
Tell him not to wait. Unless things have changed, the tests are all graded in Miami, that's one of the reasons it takes so long to get results. I surely wouldn't let it bother me, I'd be much more worried about the instructors BS hurting my test score! Good luck to him in any case!
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-06-2006 18:22
Can I ask where this instructor is from(I don't need his name)? Something sounds very familiar about your husband's story and my own trip through the seminar. I'll put it this way...I don't have a sail boat, but I can tell you about what time each draw bridge opens on a certain waterway...hint, hint. ;)
John Wright
Parent - - By justcurious (*) Date 04-06-2006 18:31
I think Hubby said VA but I will ask again to make sure. Hubby says he's a really nice guy just spends way to much time talking about boats and such.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-06-2006 18:56
That's what I was thinking.....;)
John Wright
Parent - - By justcurious (*) Date 04-06-2006 18:59
Did you take his seminar and if you did was it educational to you?
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-06-2006 19:10
Yes, I think I did have the same insructor. Yes, I got what I needed out of the seminar and passed the CWI exam first time through. But then I've been with my employer 21 years, so most of D1.1 was familiar to me. What I needed, and the seminar provided, was information about welding stainless steel materials and what heat can do to those materials, that I was not familiar with. If we are talking about the same guy, he is very knowledgeable. No doubt in my mind, the guy knows his stuff. He made the same remarks to several of the folks taking the API exam just as your hubby described. Like I said, it all sounded way too familiar.
John Wright
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 04-06-2006 18:58
Nice guys are fine and good but not when you put up close to $2000 to get the best advantage you can get.
Parent - - By justcurious (*) Date 04-06-2006 19:08
Spending all that money is a waste if you don't get somebody who takes the time to go over areas that may be harder. What about getting through at 3:00 everyday. Don't the class end at 5? That is 2 extra hours he could help some people that may be having a hard time in certain area. Hubby says he goes through all the papers real quick. If you ask a question, he gets off on another subject.

It makes me mad because of all the money. If we would have known this, hubby could have worked this week and went and took his test Sat.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-06-2006 19:13
I understand completely.
John Wright
Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 04-06-2006 19:42
I have just written Ms. Terry Perez, AWS Operations Director of Certification and asked her to take a look at these postings, to either respond or notify the proper AWS Staff Member for a response.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 04-07-2006 03:27
Hi "justcurious"!!!

I had the same instructor - that is if you want to call him one!!!
I did not learn anything about D1.1 (He ran both seminars) from "Eugene" nor did a few of my classmates!!!

Your husband had to have the same instructor because, all my instructor did also was talk about his boat, and he even showed us some slides of his boat in VA when we were supposed to be going over D1.1!!! We also left early now that you mentioned it - around 3pm - 3:10 ish???

Breaks lasted about as long as you described it and at first, I did'nt think much of it until after the seminar ended... Not only did I think we did NOT cover the Code book enough but, quite a few of my classmates felt the same about the othe parts of the exam and they were'nt happy about it at all!!!

No! I did'nt make a complaint about the seminar because I got what I needed from the test at the time, (CWE) and I did'nt want to "Rock the Boat " so to speak (my section paid for the seminar) but, I cannot help thinking what would've been the outcome (CWI/CWE) if we had a different, more objective instructor for the D1.1 seminar because, the only part of the exam that I did'nt make the cut was the code book part and that's because I did'nt have enough time with the book (we got the book on Monday of the seminar week)!!!

John Wright was kind enough to help me out with some study material way before the seminar week for the other 2 parts of the exam and I give him credit for doing so!!! Always greatful JW!!!

Now that "justcurious" mentions her husband's similar experience with this instructor, I felt compelled to speak out about my similar encounter 2 years previously with "Eugene"!!! Don't get me wrong here folks!!! I have nothing but praise when it comes to the AWS but, trying to challenge someone that has been running the exams for some time, on their integrity for me at the time - I thought was going to end up as a lesson in futility!!! That's why I did'nt bother to make a complaint about this instructor... Who would believe us anyway??? Their going to take our word over his??? That's why I did'nt speak up previously!!!

Now however, after reading another person say the same stuff about this instructor makes me fell very bitter that I was'nt given the same opportunity as a person that took the seminar with a different, an objective instructor that would've spent more time on the code book!

Thanks "justcurious" for giving me the courage to speak out also about this instructor who should be sailing on his boat instead of teaching AWS D1.1/API 1104 seminar students about it during class during the seminar!!!

I will be in touch with the AWS about this instructor because, he needs to be exposed!!!

Respectfully,
SSBN727
Run Silent (but not too silent)... Run Deep!!!








Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-07-2006 11:44
I wasn't going to mention his name, but since you did....
yup, that's who I had when I took the the 1998 D1.1 exam.
BTW, the guy that went with me from our company didn't pass his D1.1 exam and he took it a couple of times, seminar and all.
John Wright
Parent - - By QCCWI (***) Date 04-07-2006 14:57
Hey did he also talk about "Bubba" the welder alot or am I thinking of the wrong guy.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-07-2006 16:30
Yup, favorite quote: "Bubba the welder turns up the heat and burns it in deep".
John Wright
Parent - - By justcurious (*) Date 04-07-2006 16:55
Talks about Bubba all the time
Parent - By QCCWI (***) Date 04-07-2006 17:34
I thought ya'll were talking about the same guy I had for my seminar in Roanoke VA in 2002.
Parent - - By thirdeye (***) Date 04-07-2006 04:06
justcurious,

My experience was totally different. I studied with a partner one night a week for about 6 months. We used an older edition of the handbook as well as many of the other materials. The seminar I attended was conducted in a very professional manner and the class was a full 8 hours each day, with two breaks and an hour lunch. My instructor would also stay after class if ANYONE needed additional help. We also could form evening study groups and could use the conference room.

The daily pace was fast, but a lot of information was covered. We would get an outline of the next days lesson so we could skim the material the night before. All the Codes and all of the students were treated with the same respect. Not only did the instructor cover the information on the test, he coached us on how to mentally prepare for the examinations and gave a few tips on test taking in general.

Over the years, I have helped about 10 other people prepare for the examination and most have taken the seminar. I have not heard one negative comment from any of them. Most of the comments here on the forum are positive as well.

The only complaint I heard during the seminar was from people that were under the impression that the seminar would teach them everything they needed to know in 5 days. I do think that upon receipt of payment, AWS should send each student the complete package of books, and other material and stress some independant study BEFORE comming to the seminar.

All that being said, I believe that your husband is experiencing something that is not the norm. I would have spoken with the instructor at the end of the first day and voiced my concerns.

Let us know how everything worked out for your husband. Hopefully the extra study time paid off.

~thirdeye~
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 04-07-2006 08:47
thirdeye, my experience with AWS seminars has been the same, very professional, covering a lot of ground and instructors willing to help students after class if needed. It seems this group may have identified a bad apple in the instructors. If Terry doesn't provide a response in a few days I'll forward this thread to some others at AWS Headquarters.
Parent - - By justcurious (*) Date 04-07-2006 12:31
Thank you all for the replies. Today is Hubby's last day of seminar. Tomorrow is test day. He feels real confident. Anybody that has taken the test knows How he feels right now. Hubby says to thank yall for the advice.

The instructor should not be teaching AWS classes. By this point it is to late to do anything about the seminar but hopefully AWS can read some of these and the next time this instructor teaches maybe they can send someone to sit in one of his classes and monitor him. I am sure he is real proud of his boat but unless there are boat questions on the CWI test, I would think most people taking the class could care less. I would bet that most would rather talk about something (welding) that they are having a hard time with.

Hubby said yesturday they got out at 3 again. Had took look at a ton of slides and pictures of instructors boat. Instructor also left during pratice test and did not return for 2 hours. Went looking at property.

I don't think Hubby will be taking the seminar again unless it is with a different instructor. Waste of money and time. I also agree that AWS should send out the books and such before the seminar.

It seems to me, that if you pay as much money (or even if your company does) that you should get the BEST tweaking and advice that you can.
Parent - - By justcurious (*) Date 04-07-2006 12:35
Same instructor as jwright and ssbn727
Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 04-07-2006 13:55
AWS Management has sent me an e-mail saying they will look at this thread and hopefully take some corrective measures. Ideally, they would place a response to these issues in here themselves.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-07-2006 14:00
Just to clear up one issue about the advance training materials, AWS will send out the material in advance upon request, at least they did when I was looking to take the seminar/exam several years ago.
John Wright

edit: I had all of the books in my hands, several weeks, in advance of the seminar/exam.
Parent - By thirdeye (***) Date 04-07-2006 14:20
John,

I hope you are correct, maybe there have been some changes in policy.

~thirdeye~
Parent - - By thirdeye (***) Date 04-07-2006 14:15
Jon,
I think you may be correct. I guess what I find so troubling is the apparent lack of professionalism and careless attitude that is being discussed here. I would like to think that the instructors are provided with some raw pass/fail data specific to their classes so they could judge their own performance and make changes as needed.

I don't know if it standard practice or not, but my instructor had a survey sheet we filled out on Friday.

~thirdeye~
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 04-07-2006 14:20
thirdeye, I believe it is standard practice. If this is the instructor I am thinking about, I met him a few times when I worked for AWS and can say that he is truly an exceptionally knowledgable person. Perhaps he's forgotten what it's like being on the opposite side of the desk? As I mentioned, every single seminar I've ever taken through AWS has been outstanding so I have no personal experience with this type perception.
Parent - - By justcurious (*) Date 04-07-2006 15:12
Hello
I never tried to get the material before the seminar, so it is possible that they will send the study material to you if asked. Like I stated in the earlier post, hubby knew someone who gave him the study material so that was never a problem and he was able to self study months before the class. He works in NDT, so that was never a problems for him either.

He was unsure about some things in the book. He was hoping going to the seminar, and someone else explaining, would clear some of the problems up. You know how it is: sometimes you read something and remember what you read, but watching and listening to someone else gives you a different approach with it that makes it easier to absord.

My take on the instructor is that: over time someone that teaches a class and knows most of the information sometimes forgets that not everyone is on the same page as he is.
Parent - - By justcurious (*) Date 04-10-2006 19:11
Hello Everyone

I am writing under my wife's name but my name is Jason. I am the one that was taking the Seminar in Pittsburg, Pa with above instructor. I finished my test Saturday. It was a little harder than expected. You really need to get alot of studing and hands on before you do this test. Do not depend on the seminar to teach you.

Hardest part of the test for me was the brazing. That is the one area that I thought I studied for until I actually got in there. I had quite a few questions on brazing and alot on ESW. I am pretty confident that I passed the test. The easiest to me was the API 1104 and NDT.

Instructor was no help Friday during the pratical, but thanks to all the SCWI's that were there and lent me a hand on some of the ones that I didn't know. They were a great group of guys in the class.

Material (books and study material) were terrible. Copies that were hard to read and x-ray film that you could not see the defects because the copies were so blurry.

The Instructor was not up to par by any standard. He was gone by 3 most days and some days he would leave then return about 2 hrs later. One day we could not even finish our study test because he had the samples with him and we had to wait until he got back. I didn't learn ANYTHING from him and I don't think anybody in the class did either. I am a note taker, but there were no notes taken during the seminar. He jumped all over chapters. One minute he would be in chapter 1 then he would jump to 3 then back to 1. Never went over any of the study test questions, never gave any advice about what we should be studing the most for or not studing for. Never gave anything.

Well if I decide to take the CWI seminar again, I will ask who the instructor is. I felt like it was money and time wasted. I figured it up and lets just say that everyone spend about 2000 (more for some,less for some) and there were about 20-25 people there. That is $50,000 that they make off of one seminar. Not counting the money a person spends on gas, motel, and in some cases, the test.

Thank you for all the help and advice, Jason
Parent - - By KAJUN1 (*) Date 04-10-2006 21:30
I took my one week course in Pasagula, MS. at Real Educational Services. The instructor was Gerald Taylor, great class room space, everyone spread out, would take 10 minute breaks about every 60 to 90 minutes. Had snacks, fruits, & beverges for the class. A couple nights we left it was nearly 7:00PM. As long as your asking constructive questions they're hang in there with you. Best class I've been to.
Parent - - By MBlaha (***) Date 04-11-2006 00:03

I took the AWS seminar 2 times as I failed the first one. Had the same instructor both times. Ed Bohnart. I feel he did alot better the first time covering more material in a much more timely fashion. However, to be fair to Ed, the second time I took the seminar, we had about 10 people who it seemed were really not taken care of by AWS in the first place. The did not have all the material, had not recieved all the confirmations, etc. These 10 people complained, ok, BITCHED for at least 3 hours the first 3 days, with what seemed justified reason. The part I did not like, was that I had paid alot of money to learn, not to listen to disgruntled members and after a good bitch session the third day, I spoke my piece, that I had paid alot of money to learn, not listen to all this. Again, I made some enemies in the ranks, and I was not invited to the BS session at the bar that night, but I had not went the other nights either, I spent them studying. It did quiet them down however. I know the AWS education people got an earfull after that seminar in 2001. I give Ed credit for trying to get them to look past their problems and focus on the material, but sometimes, you just cannot get through the thick heads. Ed maintained a timely fashion for breaks, about 15 minutes every 2 hours, and they had coffee, tea, and rolls with a nice helathy diner at noon everyday.

Just my .03 worth

Mike
Parent - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 04-12-2006 14:47
I took the seminar with Ed last fall in Chi. It was nothing short of professional and perfect format to pass the exam. The class started every day on time and was over between 5-7:00pm. Ed pulled no punches, first 10 minutes of class he made it clear that the class would be fast and furious, and require 3 or more hours of private study after the classes each night. It was clear that you would get out as much as you put in. I think anybody that had time to make it to happy hour every day would not pass the exam unless they had a very good knowledge of the codes and all welding processes before hand. As you stated, Mike, Ed maintained a timely schedule for breaks, lunches, and everything was first class (i.e. food, juice, tea, ect). As Jason stated, it was a hard test. I have 5 years of college, 2 degrees in welding, and I think it was the hardest exam I have ever taken. In the end, private study, from class end to dinner, and again after dinner until 11:00pm almost every night is what made it possible to pass in a comfortable fashion.
This is just my personal experience, it's unfortunate that every attendee does not have the same positive experience when spending $2,000.
Mark
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-15-2006 11:18
Someone with AWS has responded ...........

Click here:
http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?id=8977


John Wright
Parent - By texredneck (**) Date 04-15-2006 12:07
I just noticed this post as well. Very professional and Im glad to see action is being taken
Parent - - By Skiddy (*) Date 05-02-2006 17:17
We just sent one of my co workers to this same siminar. He told me the same things as you all have said. He's not sure if he has passed the test due to the way the instructor taught the seminar. I took mine 8 years ago with a different instructor and passed. Yes it's a hard test but good things don't usually come easy.
Jason, hope you do pass and Steve from OK said hello.
Kenny
Parent - - By justcurious (*) Date 05-29-2006 13:45
Just to let everyone know. I just got my results in and I passed. I scored better than I thought I would. Thanks for all the comments and advice.

Thank You, Jason
Parent - By thirdeye (***) Date 05-30-2006 13:30
Jason,

Congrats on passing!  Thanks for following up with the results, this thread had gotten a lot of attention.

~thirdeye~
Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 05-30-2006 15:03
Ditto on the congrats!  You must have done your homework!  Good job and welcome to the CWI club!
Parent - By QCCWI (***) Date 05-30-2006 17:09
Congrats on passing but remember now the real learning begins.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 05-30-2006 17:25
Good job! Great to hear that you passed. :)
Parent - By KWCORYELL Date 05-30-2006 22:16
Thanks for the good news, Jason and congratulations.  The fun begins now.  Hope to run into you sometime.
Ken Coryell
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / CWI Seminar is a Joke

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